Afton Sub/Parsons Sub ~1920 ETT Info

Discussion in 'Operations' started by rjthomas909, Mar 4, 2020.

  1. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Friends,

    I have been asked to give a presentation on the Crawford and Cherokee layout at the upcoming South Texas Model Railroad Social Event. I am working on the presentation slides and am interested finding some information from ETT during the ~1920 timeframe for the Afton Sub and the Parsons Sub. I would like to speak to how often there were locals to Weir City, trains along the Parsons Sub and Afton Sub, and what trains ran on the two subdivisions. This information would also be useful to my creation of an operations scheme for the layout.

    Thanks All,

    -Bob T.
     
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  2. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    I have Northern Division ETT 6, May 6, 1923 in the stack of stuff. Will try to get those subdivisions digitized by Sunday.
     
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  3. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Wow! Thanks a million!
     
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  4. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    I would like to see a copy of that too
     
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  5. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    During the early 1920's, the Tri-State District was a "go'n' Jesse. The lead and coal mines generated much traffic, and numerous local passenger trains provided service to nearly every town on the Northern Division. In terms of the network of Frisco branch lines, the area reminds me of the River Division branch line network.

    ETT_9_May_6_1923_p10.jpg



    ETT_9_May_6_1923_p11.jpg

    ETT_9_May_6_1923_p12.jpg
    Note all the mines that the Parson Sub trains served.


    ETT_9_May_6_1923_p13.jpg

    Note that trains 177 and 178 assumed new numbers, when they traversed the Weir Br.

    ETT_9_May_6_1923_p20_ed.jpg

    Speed Limits on the Afton Sub were 60P/35F and on the Parson Sub they were 35P/20F. The Bridge Class on the Afton Sub and the Parsons (to Cherryvale) was E-50,which would have allowed all locomotives except for the USRA Mikados, the 1500's, the 4100's, the Big Ten Hundreds, the 3800’s, and the spot class locomotives.


    I do have the B&B records and the 1930 track charts for these subdivisions, if interested.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
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  6. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    Thanks for posting that. I would be interested in track charts for the parsons sub. Also, I would be interested in the pages for the Ash Grove sub as well.
    Thanks a bunch Karl
     
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  7. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks Karl! This is excellent. I will give you a shout out during my presentation!

    Looks like I might have to ditch some locomotives, though. My bridges should not support the 3803!

    -Bob T.
     
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  8. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    OK, a few things to figure out on this one. I am not sure that I recall an AT&SF crossing near Cherokee, KS. Also P&C must be a mine branch of some sort. Going to have to pull out some old maps.....
     
  9. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    I borrowed one of your posts and annotated it...
    PandCMap_cropped_annotated.jpg
     
  10. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks Karl, I really appreciate your knowledge.
     
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  11. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

  12. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    I have found 3 drawings in my stack of stuff that are related to the Pittsburg & Columbus Rwy and to the Weir City environs. I will have to stitch the images together, but here's the title block of the P&C Rwy drawing It's truly amazing to see all of the track that criss-crossed that part of the Frisco.

    Screen Shot 2020-03-09 at 3.27.50 PM.png
     
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  13. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    This is fantastic stuff, Karl. I can't say thank you enough!

    Found Weir Junction Coal in Sanborn Maps -- Cherokee, KS set from 1905. Available from U. Kansas site. This is about right...3 miles east of Cherokee P.O. I have not been able to find Kirkwood, Fleming, Kramer, or any of the other small camps in the Sanborn collection. Will keep hunting.

    Weir-Junction-Coal-1905.png

    -Bob T.
     
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  14. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Here is a 1906 map from a Crawford County Plat Book that shows the area SE of Pittsburg, but does not have some of these lines. 1905-Crawford-County-Plat-Book-1.jpg

    Kansas Historical Society: https://www.kansasmemory.org/item/209423
    -Bob T.
     
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  15. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    The map that Karl annotated can be found at:

    https://www.kansasmemory.org/item/display.php?item_id=218290&f=
    Kansas Historical Society.

    The southeastern Kansas coalfield
    A map showing southeast Kansas coal fields of Cherokee and Crawford Counties, which includes the coal land owned and leased by all coal companies. Specifically, it shows all coal mines and their locations, railroads and switches to mines, streams, towns, mining camps, electric lines of the Pittsburg & Joplin Railway and Pittsburg and Kansas City railroads. The map was copied from the Biennial Report Inspector of Coal-Mines, State of Kansas, 1906-1908 by Frank Gilday.

    The Gilday map seems to be one of the few with a comprehensive track map. It certainly aligns with the (even if later) ETT from 1923. The Dunham map does not show the same approaches to Weir, nor a completed P&C.
     

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