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ANOTHER GREAT FRISCO RAFFLE!

Cape Girardeau, MO, St. Louis Subdivision, MP 131.3

Discussion in 'St Louis Subdivision' started by chris, Mar 10, 2002.

Page 5 of 9
  1. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    I know that there was direct traffic from St. Louis to Memphis, Birmingham and Pensacola down the River Division.

    I am curious what foreign railroads might have traversed along the Mississippi River on Frisco iron.

    I have not seen any photographs of foreign power on the River Division, but most of the rest of the railroad saw foreign locomotives and cabooses.

    Photographs would be great if anyone has any.

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 7:14 PM
    Rick McClellan, Oct 11, 2011
    #81
  2. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Was not the unit coal train to Rush Tower a MP-SLSF pool operation?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 7:12 PM
    Karl, Oct 11, 2011
    #82
  3. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Rush Island unit coal train

    The unit coal train to Rush Island was a joint Frisco - MP, then later BN - MP pool run.

    The coal came out of southern Illinois or Kentucky across the Thebes bridge and then up the MP tracks to the yard at Cape Girardeau, MO. There were ad hoc fueling facilities at the south end of the yard at Cape where the MP power was serviced.

    Recent years have seen UP power dragging western coal south on the River Division from St. Louis to Rush Island.

    I have a video made by a SLSF/BN/BNSF crewman that documents coal movements in two different eras.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 7:17 PM
    klrwhizkid, Oct 11, 2011
    #83
  4. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Here is a Ken McElreath photograph of Erie Lackawanna (EL) double door automobile box car, EL 65029, at the Cape trainer on flat car (TOFC) facility in 1973.

    The placard on the end of the car indicates the car contains a fire engine for the Cape Girardeau Fire Department.

    Erie Lackawanna #65029 at Cape.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 7:20 PM
    klrwhizkid, Oct 12, 2011
    #84
  5. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    Keith,

    Thanks for posting the Erie Lackawanna photograph, that is really cool.

    Thanks to Ken McElreath for shooting the photograph.

    Regarding foreign power on the River Division, I remember the Missouri Pacific (MP) and Union Pacific (UP) power on the coal trains. I was wondering if any Southern (SOU), Seaboard Coast Line (SCL) or other power might have been seen as a results of some power agreements where a railroad in St. Louis or Memphis was paying back time to the Frisco.

    Maybe not, just thought I would check.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 7:25 PM
    Rick McClellan, Oct 14, 2011
    #85
  6. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Tim Cannon, are you out there?

    I am thinking he might have insight on this one.

    Personally, while I was awfully young, I do not recall seeing anything other than Frisco Mandarin orange and white stopping in Chaffee, MO. I think I would have noticed, considering how my first sighting of Cascade Green left an impression on me.

    While not pool power per se, the evidence exists on switch lists for Chicago and Eastern Illinois (C&EI) power running the short distance between Rockview and Chaffee, MO. The C&EI had trackage rights to Chaffee and into the 1960s ran a turn to Chaffee via the Thebes, Illinois bridge.

    Karl Brand shared some old C&EI switch lists from this era. There were a lot of MTY hoppers heading back to the coal mines, as I recall.

    After the full absorption of the C&EI into the Missouri Pacific (MP), the operations to which Keith refers above may have been the successor?

    Best Regards,

    Edit: More on the unit coal trains can be found at the following link.

    http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?threads/rush-island-coal-train.744/

    klrwhizkid
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 7:32 PM
    yardmaster, Oct 14, 2011
    #86
  7. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Attached on this post is a series of pictures taken by Ken McElreath in 1969, that depict a southbound train consist, first in downtown Cape, and then passing by Marquette Cement.

    The lead unit is EMD F7A 5032. The caboose is SLSF 231, followed by business car on the end SLSF 2.

    Frisco Freight SB at Cape - 1.jpg

    Frisco Freight SB at Cape - 2.jpg

    Frisco Freight SB at Cape - 3.jpg

    Frisco Freight SB at Cape - 4.jpg

    Frisco Freight SB at Cape - 5.jpg

    Frisco Freight SB at Cape - 6.jpg

    Frisco Freight SB at Cape - 7.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 7:47 PM
    klrwhizkid, Oct 23, 2011
    #87
    FriscoCharlie likes this.
  8. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    More photographs from Ken McElreath taken late in 1962 after demolition of the brick passenger depot.

    http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?threads/cape-girardeau-mo.769/#post-4704

    Ken's notes identify the train as the Sunnyland. It is parked next to the old Freight house depot which served as a passenger depot until the newer Armco-type metal modular building was completed.

    The train is lead by EMD E8A SLSF 2021, Gallahadion.

    SLSF #2021 on Sunnyland - 1.jpg

    SLSF #2021 on Sunnyland - 2.jpg

    SLSF #2021 on Sunnyland - 3.jpg

    SLSF #2021 on Sunnyland with #206 - 4.jpg

    SLSF #2021 on Sunnyland with #346 - 5.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 7:49 PM
    klrwhizkid, Oct 23, 2011
    #88
    yardmaster and FriscoCharlie like this.
  9. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    More Ken McElreath photographs of passenger trains and locomotives in Cape.

    Last photograph is of the Sunnyland northbound at Trail of Tears State Park, upriver from Cape.

    SLSF #2021 SB on Sunnyland at Cape - a.jpg

    SLSF #2021 SB on Sunnyland at Cape - b.jpg

    SLSF #2008 Messenger E8.jpg

    Sunnyland NB at Cape.jpg

    Sunnyland NB at Trail of Tears SP.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 7:38 PM
    klrwhizkid, Oct 23, 2011
    #89
    yardmaster and FriscoCharlie like this.
  10. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Another set of Ken McElreath photographs.

    The first two photograph are of the yard in Cape, followed by two shots taken in downtown Cape of locomotives GE U25B 817, EMD GP38-2 SLSF 676 and EMD GP35 SLSF 724, then two more shots taken just south of the original Mississippi River bridge.

    Finally, a shot of a meet taken in the Cape Girardeau yard next to Missouri Dry Dock and Repair

    The next three are of a northbound local with EMD GP7s SLSF 531 and SLSF 533 at Chaffee, MO.

    The last photograph is a caboose, SLSF 229, in Chaffee.

    Frisco Yard, Cape - 1.jpg

    Frisco Yard, Cape - 2.jpg

    SLSF #817, SLSF #676, SLSF #724 on NB Freight at Cape - 1.jpg

    SLSF #817, SLSF #676, SLSF #724 on NB Freight at Cape - 2.jpg

    SLSF #95545 Flat Car.jpg

    SLSF Main, north at Cape Bridge.jpg

    SLSF #515 on SLSF Main at Mo Dry Dock.jpg

    SLSF #533 & #531 on NB Local at Chaffee - 2.jpg

    SLSF #533 & #531 on NB Local at Chaffee - 1.jpg

    SLSF #533 & #531 on NB Local at Chaffee - 3.jpg

    SLSF #229 WV Caboose at Cape.jpg
     
    klrwhizkid, Oct 23, 2011
    #90
    FriscoCharlie likes this.
  11. timothy_cannon

    timothy_cannon Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Chris,

    Yes the C&EI and then the MP ran power into Chaffee but as the "Thebes Transfer".

    I can remember the blue MP units but not the C&EI black and white only because I was too young. I do remember an occasional black scheme Atlantic Coast Line (ACL) or Seaboard Cost Line (SCL) pool power come through and many UP units.

    The coolest was the day they cut a UP U50 out of a consist and left it in Chaffee for 2 or 3 days. It was huge! The Fallen Flags web site has a picture of a Frisco train with an ACL or SCL unit in consist near Oran. It is mislabled though.

    I will try to find it as well as some of the UP stuff I shot around 1978 or 1979. There was also the rare Southern Pacific (SP) unit in consist. This is in addition to the occasional re-route, not pool, trains that would come through Chaffee for whatever reason.

    Here is the picture from Oran, listed incorrectly as Ran, from the Fallen Flags web site.

    slsf729cbp.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 8:04 PM
    timothy_cannon, Oct 23, 2011
    #91
    BR Austin likes this.
  12. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Ken, Keith and Tim,

    You have positively made my day with the photographs and the operational details!

    Many thanks!

    In the Frisco yard photographs, is the "elevated" line the Missouri Pacific (MP)?

    Best Regards,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 8:05 PM
    yardmaster, Oct 24, 2011
    #92
  13. kenmc

    kenmc KenMc Frisco.org Supporter

    Chris,

    Yes, the elevated line on the right is the Missouri Pacific track going south.

    Note that the Frisco yard had been recently flooded by the Mississippi River, as evidenced by the silt lines from the retreating waters.

    Also, the caboose in the last black and white photograph taken in July 1962 in Chaffee was on a southbound freight leaving the Chaffee yards headed by EMD F3A SLSF 5002 and a Alco FA-1. I think I sent the head end photographs to Tim Cannon, who intends to post them on his Chaffee website.

    Keith,

    Thank you for posting these.

    It is so much better to see them and share them with others than to have them sitting in a closed scrapbook.

    Ken McElreath
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 8:09 PM
    kenmc, Oct 24, 2011
    #93
  14. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    Tim,

    That is a great photograph! Thanks for posting.

    It appears to be NWF or an equivalent pool train headed to the UP via St. Louis, Springfield, Kansas City - the long way.

    I wondered if this could have happened when an accident, maintenance of way work or whatever happened on the Willow Springs or Memphis Subdivisions.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 8:12 PM
    Rick McClellan, Oct 24, 2011
    #94
  15. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Ken,

    Thanks very much for clarifying.

    This also proactively answers what was going to be my next question. This would be an interesting feature for a River Division fan to model!

    I will look forward to seeing the head-end photographs on Tim's website soon.

    Many thanks!

    Best Regards,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 8:13 PM
    yardmaster, Oct 24, 2011
    #95
  16. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Nice photographs Ken.

    Thanks for providing them.

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 8:14 PM
    meteor910, Oct 24, 2011
    #96
  17. timothy_cannon

    timothy_cannon Member Frisco.org Supporter

    The new website is still coming!

    Working a lot of overtime and late hours!

    Ken,

    Would it be okay to post the ones Keith put up here on the new website?

    Thanks for sharing!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 8:16 PM
    timothy_cannon, Oct 24, 2011
    #97
  18. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Tim, you may share them there as well, just make sure Ken gets credit as the source.

    Ken gave me the originals to share with all the Friscoites.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 8:17 PM
    klrwhizkid, Oct 24, 2011
    #98
  19. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I know timetables from the 1970s list MDC583 riding on car 105500, and say MDC583 is a Caterpillar bulldozer.

    I know the car numbers do not match, but a number of Frisco MOW flats were renumbered in the late 1960s or early 1970s.

    Is that what we see, or is this another tractor?

    Does anyone know what kind of tractor that is on the back of that flatcar?

    It is definitely in Frisco MOW service.

    Paul
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2024 at 8:21 PM
    pbender, Oct 24, 2011
    #99
  20. kenmc

    kenmc KenMc Frisco.org Supporter

    Paul,

    As I recall, there was an equipment list from about 1970 that called it a "Tractor-ditcher," including both the flatcar and its load.

    Ken
     
    kenmc, Oct 25, 2011
    #100
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