What should the Frisco have purchased next?

Re: What should the Frisco have purchased next???

I always thought that a 4200 version 2.0 would have been the way to go. That class had the 2nd largest grate area of any Frisco loco. Add a combustion chamber, disc drivers, tapered alloy rods, and poppet valve gear.

 

Re: What should the Frisco have purchased next???

Karl,

It is interesting that you mention the 4200 and disc drives. I received a copy of the Summer 1982 issue of Locomotive Quarterly today purchased off Ebay it has a nice aticle on the Frisco mike in it. I noticed it has a photo of 4201 taken in Kansas City on September 7,1938 and it sure looks like the main driver was a Scullins. It's hard to tell with all the rods and crank in the way but it sure looks like it. It struck me odd as I didn't think the 4200's ever had these, but 4200 photo's are a little more scares so photo evidence wouldn't be as common, but it jumped out at me none the less.

Brad

 

Re: What should the Frisco have purchased next???

I would have liked to have seen the the 4309 actually streamlined like the drawing in Collias' Frisco Power. I can picture that engine done in Zephyr Blue like the Meteor oil burners and the Fireflys.

Tom

 

Re: What should the Frisco have purchased next???

I believe it would have been inevitable that the Frisco would have found the GP-50s lacking in reliability and returned to GE for their next purchases. With the road's seemingly aversion to 6 axle power, I would think the logical choice would have been B39s or B40s and eventually to the Dash 9s as todays choices are so limited (read boring). Larry F.

 

Re: What should the Frisco have purchased next???

Larry F's mention of B-39s as a possible successor locomotive is interesting. LMX B 39 dash 8's did run for quite awhile on the tracks, though not, of course, when it was Frisco.

GN

 

Re: What should the Frisco have purchased next???

Would Frisco have considered a Capitol Rebuild Program and run older power through it to avoid purchasing new power and possibly picked up former Rock Island diesels and perhaps turned out reconditioned power like the IC and SCL did? It would be interesting to have a former Frisco employee from the motive power department to join this sesson. I witnessed Seaboard System SD50s running out of Tampa when they were new and they looked and sounded good but that doesn't mean they were what the Frisco would have ordered at the time. EMD built and tested a couple of electrics, one looked as if it had a GP30 nose. Too bad hanging wire didn't go beyond the NE corridor and a few isolated coal hauling industrial lines. I can sure see some heavy modern electrics running in the Ozarks with unit coal trains! Wonder what would have been placed on the rails from Lima with their super power steam locomotives though?

There are a couple of drawings of shrouded steam locomotives in the book "Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail". I am still a fan of the Norfolk & Western Jawn Henry steam turbine electric. Now paint that one up in O/W boys!

Joe Toth

 

Re: What should the Frisco have purchased next???

Joe, I believe this question was at least partially if not completely answered before the merger with the purchase of the 25 GP15-1's. That locomotive was EMD's answer to the in-house rebuilding programs that some RR's like the Santa Fe (CF7's) and Illinois Central (Paducah Rebuilds) undertook. Having said that, one interesting possibility would have been trading in older GE units for U18b's which I believe was their answer to the GP15-1. The answer was probably not due their low horsepower.

 

Frisco Friend. I was taking cost into consideration. I was switching for the Santa Fe in Dallas when the first CF7 made its first test runs from Cleburne and I understood that the program was to save costs and avoid investing in new switching power. The ATSF went on to rebuild the GP7s and GP9s as well. I assume that BN, CNW, IC, SCL and SP ran their geeps through rebuild or upgrade programs for the same reason? EMD finally saw the light at the end of the tunnel and designed the GP15. Would it have been more feasable for the Frisco to run their first generation geeps though such a program or were the GP15s cost effective enough to the point management didn't set up a program to rebuild the GP7 fleet? Did management consider this at all before purchasing the GP15s?

Joe Toth

 

Another factor that we could debate "until the cows come home" is the fact that most RR's were starting to shed secondary and branch lines in the '80's. The BN shed the very line that the GP15-1's were sent to as an example. Therefore I seriously doubt if any more low horsepower units were needed. Also the SD45's were probably needing replacement and with what, more 6 axle units or high horsepower 4 axle ones?

 

The GP15-1 is an attractive model. No doubt the railfans of a lot of other railroads wish their favorite line had purchased this unit too. Wonder which Frisco GP7 had the highest milage on it when retired? They were run till their wheels fell off and no doubt were just too worn out to even consider being rebuilt. I still hope one can be saved. A Frisco GP7 at Frisco, Texas, just sound like a natural! Sure beats a Pennsy GG1 sitting in the hot Texas sun, with apolgies to Ken of course. Item: On my way to Germany in January '65 and right out of the US Army Transportation School at Ft. Eustus, VA, Uncle Sam shipped me from Lee Hall, VA on the C&O to Richmond and then north to Trenton, NJ via the RF&P to Washington DC and then on the Pennsy. In a Pullman no less! Stepping off the train in Trenton, a "G" flew by on the next platform with a southbound "Clocker". It made a lifelong GG1 fan out of me on the spot! Shades of those old Lionel catalogs with GG1s and Irvington heavyweight passenger cars.

Joe Toth

 

Not too sure on what would have been the best engine for Frisco to purchase next. Just anything dependable, that can haul would be good. Joe, I too think a Frisco B&Y GP7 would look nice(then again any restored Frisco engine looks nice ). The Missouri Pacific Group restored a GP7(Even though it isn't true MP, its ex-NYC) and it looks nice beside the Downs, KS depot. I still wish for a heritage unit though. I had seen in the Jan. 2013 issue of Trains Magazine, "That Watco Management has stated it's open to painting additional locomotives in special schemes, depending on the subject." Wonder if Frisco is a good subject for them?

 

Murphy, this would be cool, but two things come to mind.
1. Trade mark. The Frisco name, logos, etc are trademark property of BNSF so I doubt it would be allowed. They just painted up some hoppers to protect the trade mark on not just the Frisco, but other predecessors as well.
2. Watco has only done stuff for schools so far. To my knowledge they've done loco's only for the Cherryvale Chargers (the highschool in Cherryvale, KS), University of Alabama and Pittsburg State University.

Ethan

 

Yeah, I have noticed that. I was just saying it would be cool. I kinda wonder why BNSF wants to keep trademarks on all those old railroad logos?? Maybe thay have some planned? Oh well atleast a museum unit could be painted. If I remember right there was a museum in Kansas with an ex-Frisco switcher in BN paint.

 

Murphy and All:

Murphy you are correct about this as NW2 #261 was donated by the BN to the Great Plains Transportation Museum. It spent most of its career here serving as the Wichita yard switcher. It is my understanding that one of the conditions of the donation was that it never could be returned to a Frisco color scheme. It wore 3 (2 black, 1 O&W). There is a brief shot of the cab end of it on the promo video on this website:

http://www.gptm.us/

 

The fact that they wouldn't allow it to be returned to the original paint scheme just shows what kind of chicken s--t outfits the BN and BNSF are/were!

TG

 

That dose suck. Well BN itself is gone, so why should the condition of never being repainted still stand? Would BNSF really care if it was repainted??? It dose seem like some chicken s--t if they wouldn't let them.