I'm detailing some F units (F3 and FP7) for Frisco. I think they had Leslie single Chime horns as delivered. I want to buy some Cal scale brass detail parts, but I'm not sure which is the right one. Anyone know? Thanks,
Gary--I can't tell a Nathan from a Leslie, so I can't help you there, but the FP-7's only had a single cluster of air chimes on the right side (above the engineer's head). The other F's and FA's were delivered with two single horns--one facing each way. Then the single right side horns were replaced later with an air chime cluster. Tom
gna - It's hard to answer your question, as in many cases, different horn types were used. The safest rule is to get a pic of the unit you are modeling and use the details as mounted on that unit as best you can see them. As a rule-of-thumb, SLSF preferred Leslies, but used a few Nathans as well. I have a pic of FP-7 SLSF 5043 with a 5-chime Nathan cluster on the right side. Typically, the Leslie trumpet was longer than the Nathan trumpet - a way to (usually) tell them apart. At delivery the F-3's had the stock EMD horn. DW-173 is a good proxy. Later, the Frisco modified their cab units, F's, FP's, FA's and E's, and added a five chime, all trumpets forward, Leslie to the right side. Cal Scale 316 is a good example that I have used - it's been around for a long time. But also look at Overland 9003 - now back in stock. I've ordered a couple of these to see how they look vs the Cal Scale. Might be a better choice as the picture of it looks to be finer detail than the Cal Scale. The FP-7's were modified to use a five chime horn on the right side, with nothing on the left. Three trumpets faced forward, two to the rear. As I noted above, at least one got fitted with a Nathan, but the Leslie seemed to be more common. I'd suggest DW-191 is a good choice for the Leslie, DW-187 for the Nathan. Overland 9017 is another excellent looking Leslie. I hope others will provide their thoughts as well. We have few good top-side views of Frisco's cab units, so often a bit of guess work is needed to select the horn and other details installed up there. Ken
Thanks guys. The pics I have of FP7s it's tough to see what's on top, but this one is pretty good: I like the just delivered look, so I'll go with DW-173. I'm looking to do this F3:
gna - That's a Nathan horn cluster on FP-7 SLSF 5045 (five chime or three chime?). Now we know at least two FP-7's ran with the Nathan horn. The pic looks like it is a new unit, perhaps at EMD? If so, it would seem the FP-7's came from EMD with either the Leslie or Nathan horn set as a factory installation. SLSF 5000 in your pic looks to have the original EMD horn set. Be sure your F-3 model is the correct phase if you propose to do SLSF 5000. It's the F-3 phase that has the chicken wire between the portholes ..... notice the yellow stripe does not run between the portholes. Only SLSF 5000 and SLSF 5001 were like this. Starting with F-3 SLSF 5002, there was no chicken wire between the portholes, and the yellow stripe at the porthole level ran the length of the body. Ken
Thanks Ken. I think 5045 is new at EMD--that's why I was a little uncertain what to buy, as different FP7 pics look to have different horns, not to mention the Intermountain units seem to have stock EMD horns. I'm shaving the grabs and detailing a ER/Roco FP7. I haven't picked a number yet, but maybe I'll go with 5045. As far as the F3, I picked 5000 just for the reason you mention. I'm using Proto 1000 F3s, which are Phase II F3s, with high fans and chicken wire between portholes. It's not too hard to drill out, cut, and sand the high fans and replace them with low pan fans, but I didn't want to mess with trying to scrape off the chicken wire. Luckily, the Frisco had two units with chicken wire between portholes. While I'm at it, I'm shaving off the cast-on grabs, adding lift rings, speed recorder, etc. I'm working on the A unit; here's the B unit: I want to make the B unit a dummy and put a sound decoder in the A unit. Now I just need to finish building my paint booth...
The FP's were delivered with air chimes. Here's a builders photo of 5045 with a factory air chime set. See also Marre's "Frisco Diesel Power" page 87 (center)--FP-7's didn't have a second horn. Tom
Thanks, Tom. I'm going to get a Nathan 5-chime, then. To my eye, they all look like they are facing forward. Ken posted another picture of 5045 elsewhere: Sharp looking loco!
X-2200 South had two issues featuring air horns years ago. I can't remember where I stored them nor if it listed SL-SF as using Leslies or Nathans, but I do remember going to the piano to play the chord listed in the article. It's an A dominant 7th inverted around the C#. Try this at your piano. C# (right above middle C) E G A C# I heard that chord thousands of times growing up in Dixon, MO. Music can be beautiful!!!!! Doug Hughes, Ann Arbor
Good memory, Doug! I'd forgotten those X2200S articles. They were published in the Feb/Mar 1970 and Jun/Jul 1970 issues. I believe these still may be available as back issues. For we old timers, X2200S was the Bible back in the late 1960's and 1970's! Ken
Guys--What was the actual model # (Three or five chime??) etc. of the Nathan air horn on FP-7 5045 (Pictures on this thread below)? Are all the trumpets facing front? Thanks, Tom
Tom - Hard to tell from the photos as there are few good shots of b/y Frisco FP7's showing the roof detail, but I'd suggest the Frisco FP7 units (at least some of them early on) carried a Nathan M-5 with three trumpets forward and two to the rear. There did not appear to be a second horn mounted on the FP7's, so it makes sense they would have mounted some of the trumpets facing to the rear. In HO, the Details West Nathan M-5, #AH-187, would work well. Overland has a good Nathan M-5 (#9003) with all five facing forward, if you can find it. Overland is no longer selling parts. Details Associates has the maddening-to-build Nathan M-5 kit, #229-1602, in which you can mount the trumpets in either direction. I have seen pics of SLSF 5043 & 5044 carrying Nathans with all five trumpets facing forward. See Collias p250 for 5043, though it is a late-in-life shot. For the 3-2 arrangement, see pics in Marre/Sommers p58 & p59. Some of the FP7's appear have carried Leslies as well. I'm sure horns were swapped out over time. Unless you have a specific unit pic you are trying to recreate, put the horn on that you like best! Ken
Thanks Ken--I've also been looking at the pictures in Marre's Frisco Diesel Power, page 87. Does it look like 5045 has all facing forward and 5047 (small photo) has a three front, two rear?? THEN, take a look in Frisco Power, page 243 (top) and page 250 (#43). Those both look to me as all trumpets facing forward? Since I'm modeling N scale, probably any air horn cluster will do? Thanks, Tom
Tom, My guess on the pic of SLSF 5045 in Marre/Harper, p87, is that the Nathan M-5 has the 3-forward, 2-rear arrangement ..... but it is hard to tell. To me, it looks like the horn closest to the radio antenna is rear facing, as the trumpet end is bigger in diameter than the diaphragm end of the horn, and that looks to be the way it is facing. Note also the pic of SLSF 5047 - it looks like it has a Leslie (or maybe a Nathan P-5). Go figure! Again, hard to tell in the pics in Joe's book. SLSF 5051 on p243 (neat pic!), to me, looks like one trumpet might be facing to the rear - the low one on the engineer's side. On p250, I think all five are facing forward on o/w SLSF 43 (SLSF 5043 made ugly!). I checked the prints in my personal Frisco collection for FP7's with Nathans and found: SLSF 43 (clearly 5 forward) ..... I have three shots of 43 from the same day as the pic on p250 SLSF 5043 (clearly 3 & 2) ..... looked a lot better in b/y colors! SLSF 5044 (clearly 3 & 2) SLSF 5051 (probably 3 & 2), but it is not a M-5, perhaps a Nathan P-5, or a Leslie. Ken
Thanks a lot Ken! I never knew a Nathan from a Leslie (still don't). I wish I could hear one on a Frisco FP-7 "cutworm" or an E-8 "racehorse!" Regards, Merry Christmas, Tom
