The future Iantha Branch

Discussion in 'General' started by Iantha_Branch, Jun 29, 2022.

  1. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    Hello everyone.

    I think I've mentioned a couple times that I'm going to be building a new, bigger layout in the near future. I decided I wanted to start a new thread so I can get some feedback on my plans.

    The full picture is my wife and I are having a house built next year. We already have the land purchased and the rest of this year will be spent getting all the prep work out of the way. I do have a few more months to work on plans, but time is starting to run out on the planning phase.

    For starters, lets look at the layout space its self. I don't want stairs, and the terrain wont allow for a basement anyway, so I am building a separate building from our house. My current plans have it drawn up to be a 80' x 40' in total size. I've spent the past 2 years now off and on playing with AnyRail and have settled on a 60' x 40' layout space, as I can generally fit in most of what I want in that space. The rest of the building will be devoted to a small studio (for my musical interests), a storage closet and a crew lounge.

    Speaking of the crew lounge, lets talk about the best part of this property: not only is it concealed off the road, but the south property line is along the Frisco's Ash Grove Sub, now operated by that orange railroad. The layout building is about 400' away from the mainline that sees about 4-10 trains a day. Any guests that come over to operate will be able to see real trains roll by from the crew lounge, or from the layout its self.

    That's all for the introduction. I should have more here soon. Attached below is a floor plan I have drawn up for the building, and a picture that I took standing where the crew lounge will be to give an idea of what the view will be like.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    I'll work on posting some of the track plans I've come up with later. For now I want to outline some of the basic specs I've been using with all my designs.

    I model in HO scale, mostly set around 1980, but I occasionally bend that rule a little bit to include things I like.

    As with my current layout, the base height will be set at 30" from the floor. This allows the operator to set in an office chair while operating, it's much more comfortable than standing the entire time.

    For the most part, the bench work will be 24" deep.

    Tracks will be spaced 2" on center apart.

    I try to keep a minimum radius of 30" for the mainline, and 26" for staging areas.

    I set up all the yard tracks and passing sidings based on a total of 24' of train length. That allows for a typical train to include 4 locomotives, a caboose and 30 ish cars depending on length.

    Anything I'm overlooking, or need to modify?
     
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  3. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Aisle space is an important factor.
     
  4. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    I knew I would forget something.

    In my recent plans I've tried to use 6' wide aisles in areas where 2 people would regularly operate back to back. Elsewhere on the layout, I use 4' as a standard width.
     
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  5. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    6' is more than generous. IMHO, you can actually go with less.

    AND if you pick your friends right (only have skinny friends)... you can get by with way less!

    Only kidding. You do need to allow for "girth", because they can't all be svelte and debonair like I am.

    :D :D

    erdnA
     
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  6. geep07

    geep07 Member

    Operating a large layout and standing for long period of time can be cumbersome to some individuals. Good carpeting or floor mats is a given.
    Operating a large layout from a chair rolling or stationary will be a problem in trying to reach in and uncouple or rerailing a car or locomotive.
    If you want a Bumper Car effect, put some horns on too!
    Putting comfortable stools around the layout will be far more beneficial and snack stations will keep your operators happy and comfortable while waiting for a signal to proceed.
    Crew lounges are okay for gathering prior to and after the session. I have had operators leave the room to get a refreshment or snack and they get to talking and forget to mind their train.

    Good Luck !
     
  7. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    My current layout is built down at setting height, and its easily the best decision I made with the current layout. With my foot, knee, hip and back issues, standing and tall stools are a no go for me. As far as reach, I don't have any issues with operating along the wall of a 2' deep layout.

    The one thing that I'm iffy about with the current building design is how far it is around to the bathroom from the layout. Right now, its a long walk from the back corner of the layout, back to the crew lounge.
     
  8. mark

    mark Staff Member Staff Member

    Ethan,

    Below are a few thoughts to improve your basic building design. The below suggestions are not in any particular order.

    Building should be set up a minimum of 6" - 12" from the surrounding grade on all sides. Not only keep unwanted water out, but drain water well away from the building, all walkways and parking even on the heaviest downpour and near flooding days.

    Seems to me there is a large amount of unproductive square footage devoted to passage/ hallways. Suggest you eliminate at least the lower left horizontal hall entirely. Use the gained hall square footage space and eliminated wall expense to expand one or more of the other rooms.

    Flip by 180 degrees the restroom / closet / storage room. Place the restroom door in the vertical hall, off of but definitely out of the crew lounge. Reverse the order of the fixtures so that the sink, a higher use fixture, is closest to the door. This increases privacy, while removing a potential source of unpleasant orders out of the immediate lounge. In addition, this improves traffic flow, opens up all the windows, while adding wall / seating space where you need it in the lounge. An added benefit by taking the plumbing to an interior wall is that it helps reduce the potential for frozen water lines on an exterior wall.

    Reverse the restroom and layout space doors to open into their respective rooms. Do not allow a potential open or opening door to ever block the main hall passageway.

    Consider moving the layout room entry door from a corner to a more centrally located placement in the dividing wall. Again, this will help improve traffic flow while minimizing "dead" space common with a corner entry.

    Suggest making the layout room entry a double door. Having a wider passage from the hall during construction will be important for ease of bringing in material. Having a wider passage for 8' or longer materials is important. Another option is leaving a wide entry opening unfinished until construction is largely complete.

    Have you accounted for utility space (electrical breaker panel, water heater, HVAC) and a utility (clean up) sink?

    Suggest you have a devoted workshop space for dirty construction (saws, sanding, etc.), modeling and painting work. Plan on exhaust and ductwork for a paint booth. Should you pre-plumb for air lines (tools, spray painting, compressor)? Important to keep dirty, dusty work out of the lounge, layout and music space as much as possible.

    Consider an entry vestibule or "lobby" space. A place to remove wet or dirty shoes and hang coats at the immediate entry / exit will greatly help with housekeeping, prevent tracking in dirt and water and reduce clutter in the balance of the building. Best practice is to have the main building entry door open out in case occupants need to exit quickly. Consider a small porch with awning to help keep water / snow away from the entry door. Again, keep dirt and water out of the finished building space.

    Other life safety issues to plan on incorporating are a clear second exit route(s) from occupied spaces, emergency lighting with backup battery or other power, smoke and fire alarms. With no basement, how will you protect yourself and visitors during severe weather? With a large layout space, how many operators / visitors to you anticipating hosting at any given time?

    Hope this helps.

    Thanks!

    Mark
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
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  9. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    Mark, these are all excellent points and I thank you for them.

    This is why I shared my plans, now I have more ideas to work with next time I can set down to revise things.

    Originally, I had designed the crew lounge to function as an entryway, but moved it around to the other side of the building to get a better view. That's why I lost 4' of space to the horizontal hallway. I'll look at reshuffling the bathroom to be on the hallway instead of the lounge. There is a mechanical closet at the back of the storage closet, I forgot to label it.
     
  10. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    Had some time tonight to revise my building plan.

    Something I didn't mention in the previous post is I plan to do a slab foundation and just have polished concrete floors. It should be simpler, cheaper and easier to maintain. There isn't hardly any plumbing to contend with, so I don't really need a crawl space foundation on this building. I'll talk to my builder, but I'm sure it'll be at least 6" above grade.

    Major changes, I moved the bathroom to be accessed from the main hallway, and the HVAC closet is behind it, though I could move the door for it to either the storage room or the studio if need be. I added some more details to the rooms so its easier to visualize what I'm going for. I forgot about it earlier, but I'm planning on a kitchenette in the crew lounge to handle snacks and drinks, as well as a setting area. I ended up putting the work bench in the storage area, so that mess can be hidden away easily. I left space for a paint booth, utility sink, work area, tool and supply storage.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Well, it's going to be a challenge dealing with such a cramped layout space... but hopefully you can fit in something.

    :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
     
  12. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    Well I might have a plan that includes Kansas City, Tulsa, Springfield, St. Louis, Memphis and staging for points west and east outside of the layout :ROFLMAO:
     
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  13. mark

    mark Staff Member Staff Member

    Ethan,

    Reviewed your revised building plan. If you are going to retain the horizontal hall, recommend the following.

    Have the horizontal hall enter in the center of the left building wall. That would split the four rooms, two each side.

    Relocate the layout room entry door for a straight shot down the relocated horizontal hall directly into the layout space. This eases access and eliminates the need to make 90 degree turns of long materials used for layout construction.

    It also shortens the travel distance down either wing of the vertical hall to access the adjoining supporting rooms. Emergency egress is improved by reducing travel length from each of the other rooms.

    Expand the studio room into the lower half of the vertical hall to increase its square footage, similar to, and a mirror image of, how the lounge is set up.

    Consider adding one or more windows in the relocated studio on its "new" outer wall at the bottom of the plan. At least frame for potential windows during construction so they could easily be added at a later date.

    Hope this helps.

    Thanks!

    Mark
     
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  14. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Looks like a heck of a project Ethan. I have done (still doing) a big RR similar to the sq footage you are talking about here, still havent finished it, I never will. I decided to make the building for who might come after me, (non-MRR person). I also left out plumbing and crew lounges and the like for the very strict permit issues around here. I also dont care for people having food or drink anywhere near the MRR, adjacent room or not, as even trash seems to draw unwanted critters, no matter how bug/dirt proof you think it is. I tried to keep isle width as wide as I could too, but there are close points (2' or so) along the way, as a hard and fast rule of 4 or 6' was too restrictive when it came to drawing the layout. I decided on 48" min curves on the main lines and have never regretted it. Again as for isle issues, it seems to me, that every op session eventually turns into a BS session, and in this 30 X 50' layout everyone seems to be gathered in a common spot to just visit and talk, or look at their/your latest modeling ventures. I am loathe to let people in the layout with about anything other than model trains, I have put in cup holders about every 10ft, and I still had a couple guys sit cans on the MRR, which got them a reprimand real quick like, just little stuff like that drives me crazy lol.
    I am glad you are starting this at a much younger age than I did, but remember, at the end of the day you are the guy you need to make happy. Dont be overly concerned with potential mistakes, cause they are gonna happen, I have had some of my most satisfying ventures figuring my way out of a mistake. So many people never build a layout, because they spend their entire time hand wringing, trying to design the perfect layout, so concerned it may not turn out, they never get past the planning stage. Your a smart talented guy, and this will be a great model RR. I am looking FWD to seeing your adventure.
     
  15. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    Mark, Thanks again for the continued feedback. I'll have the play around with the floor plan and try your idea with the central hallway. At this time, I want to keep the door to the layout where it is, because if I move it, it scraps every plan I have drawn up so far. I've played around with the door placement and that location always worked out best for the layout its self. Essentially, since I'm starting from scratch, I can build the room around the layout instead of the layout around the room. One revision I can make is to move the main entry door around 90 degrees to the east wall of the building. That would give a straight shot in to the layout room to bring in material.

    Tom, Thanks for the feedback. Part of the reason I want such a big layout is so that it's never done so I always have something to do. Luckily I'm outside city limits, so there are no building permits to deal with. When playing with different options, I found that 30 or 30" radius seemed to fit in real well. 48" would look nice, but takes up a lot of space. Part of operating session is socializing, so gathering points don't bother me that much.

    Stay tuned for more updates.
     
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  16. geep07

    geep07 Member

    Would a load bearing wall or beam and posts required for roof truss for a room this size?
    Curious if Tom Holley's building has this?
    I read stories where guys cussed at support post being in the way of their dream layout. I am a victim of this travesty.:eek:
     
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  17. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    I already spoke with my builder to make sure it's possible, and the roof will be trussed so that it won't require any load bearing walls to work around. That gives me the option to put walls where I want, and I have more time to decide where to put them.
     
  18. geep07

    geep07 Member

    COOL!
     
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  19. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    Ethan, going back a few posts talking about rolling chairs. I have Cynthia's old manual wheelchair that works great because it will roll easier than an office chair. On my privious layout I had an electric wheelchair and I could drive around the layout to follow the trains. It was like you were in a helicopter flying just above the train, the layout was about 6 to 8 inches below eye level.

    You can find either one fairly cheap for an used one and you will find it fun to move around up close when operating.

    Joe
     
  20. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    I've thought about wheel chairs before, but haven't actually looked in to it yet. I wonder about having enough room to turn them around in the 4' isles.
     
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