Stockyard and Wood Fence modeling question

Discussion in 'General' started by skyraider, Sep 24, 2018.

  1. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    My current project is a stock pen. It's an ancient Campbell kit that I've modified. So far I've built part of one gate.

    The instruction drawings are scale templates. I put wax paper on top of the instruction sheet to keep glue from sticking to the instructions. On top of that I put upside down scotch tape (part of a loop with the ends curled under so the ends stick to the wax paper) to hold the cut pieces of wood in place to glue them. Now I've glued the cross pieces of the gate to the two uprights.

    Question: any ideas on how to carefully and safely pull the glued pieces off of the tape so I can flip the gate over and put the pieces on the other side? Since these are tiny pieces with minimal glue, the gate could come apart while trying to pull it loose from the tape. All I can think of is to use an exacto and carefully pry the tape off of the gate.

    Any ideas are appreciated.

    Paul Moore Gate.JPG
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  2. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    What type of glue have you used?
    I would recommend using C/A and kicker, then you would not have to worry, and you can probably get by without the tape.
  3. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    So far on the wood projects I've done I've used good old yellow carpenter's glue. The CA I have is extremely thin and runny and goes all over the place. Even with a different type of glue you have to do something to hold the wood in place until it is glued. If you accidentally touch it, it moves.

  4. Once the yellow glue has cured it should hold up to carefully peeling the tape. Maybe get the tape just a little wet, or at least the blade as you pull it off....?....
  5. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    It ended up ok. I was able to carefully pull the tape off using an xacto knive. I may try your wet idea on the next two. Here are a couple of photos of the gates done so far.

    paul gates first two.JPG
  6. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    Paul, when I was building a coal trestle, I used a piece of insulation foam and straight pins to hold the parts together. Continue using wax paper on top of the instructions and use CA, it doesn't take much. You may have to use an Xacto knife to cut the parts away from the wax paper.

  7. Sirfoldalot

    Sirfoldalot Supporter Supporter

    I once built a ton of stock cars (individual boards) basically using your technic -except that I made several copies of the plans and used a "new" copy for each construction. I did not use any wax paper, but I did use Elmers yellow glue and I still have the cars - they have not come apart at all. I was very careful only using a tiny bit of glue as I did not want the joins to show. I also used small fishing weights to hold the glued pieces in place while they dried and I would move to the next plan copy - a sort of production line. I was surprised at the time as to how fast the Elmers set up too!
  8. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Joe and Sherrel,

    Thanks for sharing your methods. This stock pen is going to take awhile. I get bored doing the same thing over and over again. I may try both of your methods.

    Paul Moore
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  9. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Paul, the key to using C/A is to use as little as possible; it just takes a touch. If the wood is porous like balsa, thin C/A will wick into the joint. Otherwise use thick C/A. Use of kicker will help speed the process and help eliminate uncured glue outside the joint.
  10. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Keith, right now the only Super glue I have is insta-flex, and it's super thin. If it had a viscosity number, it would be a negative number!! I need to go get some thicker CA. The yellow glue works great--it's wood glue. It just dries a lot slower. It probably makes a stronger joint than CA, and doesn't tend to get brittle over time.

    The whole problem is trying to hold the pieces in place and straight so I can glue other pieces to them. Most of the pieces have a cross section of 1/16" X 1/32". They're too small to pin in place, and the pins would be in the way of the pieces being glued to them. It's working for now. I just have to be extremely careful taking the sub assembly off of the tape that is holding it in place.

    Thanks, and I'll get some thicker super glue soon.

    p.s. using super glue here isn't the same as in a humid environment. The moisture in the air helps cure it. This week we've had days where the humidity was 10% or less. I will have to get some kicker, as well. On extremely dry days, it doesn't want to cure.
  11. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    Paul, you might try to straight pin the boards on the top and bottom along with the vertical posts. Once the glue sets up go back and add boards in the center. Just a thought.

  12. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Same here Paul with the CA, I have to use Kicker almost every time.
  13. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Thanks to everyone for their input. It seems I've got the process down. today I nearly completed the second pair of gates. They are mirror images of the first two, because two will open out and two will open in. All I had to do was scan the instructions; import the scan into Photoshop; crop out what I didn't need; flip the canvas horizontally;print it, and instant reverse instructions. My concern was that the scanned and printed sheet might not be exactly the same size. Sometimes copy machines will adjust the size by 5% to 6%. Not the case--exactly the same size.


    Paul Moore Gates four.JPG
  14. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Those look really good Paul, mine would never bee that straight.
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  15. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Paul, thanks for the process. I will have to build a stock pen, gates and chutes.
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  16. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Thanks, Tom, though I doubt the assertion regarding yours being straight. I've seen photos of your modified diesels!!!

    By the way, that's why I use carpenter's glue. It's forgiving. It doesn't dry instantly, so you can adjust pieces if you have to. Also, when using the yellow glue, if there's a bit of glue that squeezed out from between the pieces showing, you let it dry just a little so it skins over, and you take an exacto knife and scrape it off. It rolls up into a little ball and you can't see that it was ever there. With super glue, if there's extra, there's a shiny spot. On a painted diesel or plastic rolling stock kit, you dull coat the model and the CA spot is no issue. With stained wood, that's not the case.

  17. skyraider

    skyraider Member


    You're welcome. If I learn anything else (the hard way), I'll make sure and post it so you can avoid it.

  18. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Hi Keith,

    A few more things regarding the stock pens. I modified the plan that came with the model. It didn't fit my space, and it was ridiculously complicated. They claim that it was a stock D&RGW plan, but there was a massive amount of wasted space. The existing chute is also extremely complex, so I will modify that, as well.

    The plan is to use one or two longer-than-called-for fence posts on each side (each 50' or 65' side). I will drill a hole in the scenery exactly where the long posts to go and just drop the long posts into the holes. Each section of fence will stay upright that way until the next leg of the fence is glued onto the portion already installed. It will also supply a little extra support.

    I'm trying to figure out a way to make the gates actually hinge. Maybe super glue two tiny sections of a syringe needle to the inside of the gate where it won't be too easily seen, and insert a long, thin spike into the scenery that goes all the way up to the top cap rail over the gate. The little tubes formed by the syringe could be dropped onto the spike, forming crude hinges
    . That may not work but it's all I can think of without just gluing the gates in place. Doll house hinges are too large for HO scale gates.

    A couple of friends in Ft Worth have actually worked on farms and ranches around cattle. They gave some good input regarding the gates. Each gate that is on the fence perimeter leading into a holding area should open outward. The two gates from the holding pens into the chute alley should open into the alley. That is why I made pairs of gates that are mirrors of each other, instead of making all four with the supports on the same side. It also gives a little more variety.

    Hope that helps. Once I geet part of the fence on the layout, I'll take a few shots and post them.

    Stock Pen Plan.jpg
  19. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Good stuff, Paul. Looking forward to more in progress photos. Stock pens are re A lay a must for any self-respecting model railroad town being depicted pre-1960 or so.

    Regarding hinges, there'a an article in Vol. 1 of the Railway Prototype Cyclopedia on scratchbuilding a stock pen by MoPac modeler Charlie Duckworth. He writes: "The hinges on the two chute gates are made from two metal eyelets placed together and then glued to the posts using ACC on the top and bottom of each gate."

    There aren't any pictures of this in the article and I have difficulty visualizing it; based on the MoPac standard drawings, it looks to me like two eyebolts/lift rings spread apart and connected in a handshake of sorts. Not sure if that'll be helpful at all.

    Still owe Brad Slone a big shout out for setting me up with Vol. 1 when I thought the ship had sailed for getting my hands on a copy. He's not only famous, he's generous.

    Finally, here's a Frisco Standard Drawing from 1913 that Karl has previously shared. I think you're pretty well where you need to be on yours, Paul, but I'll give this a bump for others who may be curious.

    Stock Pen Std Plan October 1913

    Best Regards,
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  20. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    All good stuff Paul,
    Precision Scale makes operable miniature hinges if you want there are several different sizes and types.
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