Soldering Feeder Wires

Discussion in 'FAQ' started by Boomer John, Dec 1, 2009.

  1. Boomer John

    Boomer John Member

    I got to the part I've dreaded, solding feeder wires onto flex track. I was smart enough to practice before going to the actual trackwork. What a disaster. I've read klrwhizkids posting, but have a more general question.
    What sort/size of iron are people using to get the heat and flow quickly, but not hot enoough to cause a melt down. I hate this task. It looks so easy when they do it in the MR photos.

    Also, when wiring DCC what is the best practice for distance between feeder wires that feed into the bus wire?|-|

    John
     
  2. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    John,
    I feel strongly that you should have a relatively high wattage pistol type soldering gun for quickly heating the rail and conductor. The 140 watt Weller 8200 will accomplish this and not break the bank. Mine is the old 300 watt standby D650 (industrial). One thing that will improve your results is pre-tinning the feeder wire with solder before trying to solder to the rail.
    Review post: http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?t=2849
    "1) A high wattage soldering gun, such as the Weller 8200. This is invaluable for making good solder joints were current flow matters - bus & feeder wires for DCC, soldering feeders to rails. The reason to have such a tool is that you are trying to heat the joint quickly and more mass in the joint requires more power. If you don't heat the joint well - resistance is the result and resistance is not our friend. Also the quickly part is very important to help prevent melting ties when soldering to the rails."

    Regarding feeder spacing; the most important thing to remember is to connect a feeder to each individual piece of rail, i.e. one pair of feeders to every section of track (flex track, switch leads, crossover legs, etc).
    A simple switch could have up to seven leads depending on the type of switch used and a crossover could have eight.

    If you want help or a demonstration, give me a call - you have my number. Besides I'd like to see your progress.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 1, 2009
  3. bob_wintle

    bob_wintle Member Frisco.org Supporter

    John:
    I use a soldering station that I bought from Radio Shack. The temperature is adjustable and I usuall try to keep it around 700 degrees. It sounds to me like your soldering Iron is not of sufficient wattage ie high enough temperature. You have to keep it on the spot too long to get the solder to melt which in turn melts the ties. Two things that will also be of help is to make sure your irons tip is clean each time you make a connection. You can accomplish this but getting a small sponge and wet it. Then you just wipe the tip of the iron across it. This will get all the old resin off of the tip. The second important thing is to make sure you tin the feed wire before you start. Also the correct size and type of solder is is critical to making a good fast joint. I know Keith and Rick are pretty good solderers so maybe one of them could give you a little tutorial. As Mark always says "I hope this helps"
    Bob Wintle
     
  4. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    I'll tell ya what soldering is: frustrating. I'm making slow progress on my layout because I'm not very motivated to solder the track. I have problems with it not sticking.
     
  5. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Here here. My father-in-law and I discovered this the hard way about 12 years ago on our first big layout project. Pre-tinning definitely seemed to help.

    Additionally, based on the recommendation of one of the Mexico, MO club members, we purchased a small hemostat for holding the pre-tinned feeder wire up against the track. I'm not sure if it also served as a heat sink, but it seemed (perhaps coincidentally) that we didn't melt any more ties after that!

    OT, but I remember my TV-repairing Grandpa Phillips having a soldering gun that, as a kid, seemed as big as my head. He always seemed to have a lot of interesting items in his tube caddy.

    John, in lieu of my making it to KC for model RR fun anytime soon, I look forward to seeing pictures of the layout progress.

    Best Regards,
     
  6. FriscoGeorge

    FriscoGeorge Frisco Employee

    I'll tell you what is frustrating, try putting decals on an N scale locomotive!
    FriscoGeorge:eek:
     
  7. HWB

    HWB FRISCO.org Supporter

    I love the hemostat idea and what is pre-tinning? I have been soldering track and other things for years and never heard of it
     
  8. bob_wintle

    bob_wintle Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Tinning or pre tinning is simply heating the items that you are soldering and adding a touch of solder to each of them before you put them together to actually solder them.
    Bob Wintle
     
  9. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    Ethan,

    Soldering just takes a little know-how and some practice. I will set up a piece of track and my soldering iron you can practice on when you are not running a train on the 19th.
     
  10. Boomer John

    Boomer John Member

    I followed advice given here starting with buying a 140 watt gun. Worked perfect with no melted ties. Thanks to all who responded.

    John
     
  11. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    Rick: I have gotton practice. It's just not much fun, but I know how to solder. Some helpful hints would be yery appreciated.
     
  12. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

  13. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    The first video is essentially how I solder with a couple of exceptions.

    First, I use the soldering iron to transfer heat, not solder. I keep my iron clean and tinned and heat up the track or the feeder. When the track or the feeder is hot enough the solder will flow where it is touched. The narrator does not show how he gets solder on the track but he uses the solder on his solder iron to tin the feeder wire. I am certainly no Double E so those with electrical training can provide additional insight. His use of the wet cotton as a heat sink is interesting but it's a step not needed if you get in and out quick with the soldering iron.

    Second, I use 22 ga stranded copper feeders and have not had any issues with the lighter gauge wire. Most of my feeders are 18 inches or less. Either my layout works well everywhere or crummy everywhere. I favor 22 ga wire because it is easier to work with, it's a smaller wire to hide when ballasting and it works for me.

    PS I don't like soldering feeders either, but I sure like the way the layout runs when I do.

    Finally, I would strongly recommend against soldering track joints. Several years ago layout owners did this hoping to improve their electrical performance but did so at the expense of mechanical problems. Expansion and contraction with heating and cooling caused severe kinking of the track. I have seen track actually come loose from the molded on spikes and go out of gauge. Track laying is really another function but it is always a good practice to leave a small amount of space in between pieces of track to allow for the expansion of the track. I use a business card for spacing between peices of track.

    The only place I recommend soldering track together is on curves. I solder the flextrack together at the railjoiners before forming the curve. This provides a nice, smooth, sweeping curve from the flextrack and eliminates kinks at the rail joiners in the curve.

    OK one more thing. . . .

    I solder a feeder on each piece of track. Yeah I know this is a pain but, if done properly, will make this part of your railroad bulletproof. Rail joiners will oxidize eventually and will not conduct electricity.

    OK you Double Es out there, what are your recommendations?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2009
  14. bob_wintle

    bob_wintle Member Frisco.org Supporter

    To get the best transfer of heat not only should you pretin everything you are going to solder together, the tiip of your iron should have a small amout of solder on it also. Then when you actually are doing the soldering your iron's tip can and will transfer the maximum amount of heat in the shortest amount of time. When you are in the middle of the soldering you should not have to touch the solder to the tip of your iron.
    22 gauge wire is fine for feeders but they should be as short as possible. I have used them and the 18 like in the video.
    Bob Wintle
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2009
  15. bob_wintle

    bob_wintle Member Frisco.org Supporter

    After reading Ethan's last post on another thread, two things came to mind. One if you use a wet sponge to clean your the tp of your Iron as I suggested earlier, please wait a few seconds before touching solder to the tip of your iron. Usually the length of time it takes to get your iron frome the wet sponge to your project is enough. If you do it to soon the solder can splatter a bit which believe me is unpleasent. Another thing, if you are soldering under your layout, learn to solder off to the side of your project. In other words don't put your self directly under what you are soldering. If you must be under the project it would be an excellent idea to wear a pair of safety goggles. Ethan was indeed very lucky that the solder didn't go into his eye. I never thought of that as a possibility until seeing his last post. I have several soldering scars from my 33+ years in the Electronics field and I know how badly one can be burned by solder. One last suggestion. If you are using a pencil type of soldering iron, be sure to get a good holder for it preferably one with a guard. A hot soldering Iron will leave a nasty burn if you inadvertantly grab the business end of it. Please don't ask me how I know this. Remember when soldering SAFETY FIRST.
    Bob Wintle
     

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