Hi. Does anybody know for certain what the top of a Frisco FA1/FB1 looked like? Any pics? What I'm mainly interested in is the turbo exhaust. What did they look like in service, i.e., how did they weather? Were they relatively clean, or did they get all sooty and oily? My thought is they were pretty clean - they ran hot as part of the early air-cooled turbos overheating and warping/burning up. I remember the late Lee Buffington (God bless his soul!) telling me of all the headaches the ALCo 244's in the FA1's, FB1's and RS2's caused. I'm finishing up an A-B-A set (Proto 2000 FA1-FB1-FA1) and am wondering how to finish off the exhaust housing. Currently, I have the turbo exhaust housing dull black, the exhaust opening flat black, and the stack itself a rusty shade. It looks pretty good, but I'm wondering if anyone knows what they actually looked like. TIA. Ken |-|
There are some color photos of FA's in Marre & Sommer's "Frisco In Color"--Not sure if they're high up enough to help?? I may have a b/w shot of a Frisco FA from above--would that be of any use? Tom
Thanks, Tom. Yes, a higher up view of a Frisco FA1/FB1 would be of great help. I can't find any good views up top. The color pic of SLSF 5210 in the Marre/Sommers book is my prime reference for finishing off my set of P2K FA1's/FB1's. I have several other useful shots as well, but none are as clear as that one. As a follow-up to my question above - I also notice that none of the FA1's seem to have been equipped with a radio and the "nail" antenna that Frisco liked back then, until after they were repowered with EMD 567's. Am I correct on that? Does anybody know? I was about to mount an antenna on the first FA1 and thought it best to check some pics to see if I could get a clue on the correct roof location. Eek! - I can find no antenna on a 244 powered FA1. Glad I thought to check! Ken |-|
Ken--Now that I look at it, I'm afraid it's too distant to help you much. I'll post it anyway--It's a neat railscene. Keep watching. Tom
Here's FA 5223 at Tulsa Union Depot 5-22-49. Armour billboard above, B & O wagon top boxcar at right. Probably too far away for modeling use--Nice "Frisco-ish" scene though. Tom (Arthur Johnson photo, Tom Galbraith collection)
Tom - Thanks. Neat pic - sure wish we could still see these today! SLSF 5223 looks like she is in her early life with the Frisco, before the multi-chime horn array facing forward was added. No evidence I can see of an antenna - certainly no "nail". Ken |-|
Wish we knew some more about Frisco railroad radio...I used to live next door to a fella (at that time a TV station engineer) who was a 2-way radio installer on the Frisco around '52-'53. He did some work around Memphis including installing a unit on a steam switch engine--he mentioned that it was a lot of trouble because the steam and diesels had very different electrical systems. He did some project enabling the Frisco and IC to talk on the same channel. I think the roads shared switching down there someplace. Were the wire antennas before or after the "firecracker" (you called it a nail) type? Tom
I very much agree with Tom's post ... wish we knew more of the specifics of how Frisco entered into the radio era on their Diesel freight trains. Might explain some of the mystery we are surfacing about antennas on FA's, etc. At the risk of overkill on this topic - and I recognize I may be getting close - I have learned a bit more about the FA1's and radio antennas since my last post. I went through all of my Frisco pics - personal prints, books, & digital gleened on-line, of SLSF ALCo FA1/FB1's, some 30/35 FA1/FB1 pics - and I see that at least some of the FA1's that did not receive the EMD repowering treatment, did receive the ALCo retrofit water-cooled turbo (they are all relatively high in the number series, SLSF 5220 and up ... could they have come from ALCo with water turbos or were they really retro-fit air-cooled units???). I have a neat print, top-side view, at Lindenwood, of SLSF 5220 - there she sits, by the Diesel shop, sporting an ALCo water-cooled turbo. And, there is a shot in the Marre/Harper book (my SLSF Diesel Bible!) of SLSF 5231, which also sure looks like it carries a water-cooled turbo (they sat sideways while the air-cooled units sat lengthwise). Both of these fine Frisco ALCo puppies are sporting a "nail" radio antenna! Thus - I think, be they EMD repowered, or ALCo re-turboed, the SLSF, at the same time or close to it, added radios and a "nail" radio antenna to the ALCo FA fleet. But ... I have a SLSF 5228 print, also at Lindenwood, with what looks like (hard to see) an air-turbo, but clearly with a "nail" antenna. My early EMD F3 pics also are universally sans "nail" antennas. When were train radios and these "nail" things added? Wish we knew. This is one of the great things about our beloved Frisco - such mystery! One thing I will do - my P2K ALCo FA1's, 5200 and 5215, will retain their air turbos and receive no "nails". Ken |-|
And Ken--Am I right in saying that although there were radios all over the Frisco on geeps, F's, FA's FP-7's and yard switchers, there weren't any on passenger engines?? Wonder why? Even the KATY had radio equipped passenger diesels! Tom
Tom - Yes, as far as I can tell, none of the Frisco E7's or E8's were equipped with radios - at least the pics I have (many) show no antennas. Frisco's passenger trains, being much shorter than the freights, couldn't justify radios I guess. Too bad - in a moment of dumbness, before I checked any pics, I installed antennas on four of my five P2K SLSF E8's some years ago. Too bad - they should have had them, and they look good! Ken |-|
Ken what period do your FA models represent? The 5210 photo is 1962--Is that your era? Tom PS:Re:"Nail"--an actual (small) nail could be used to represent an antenna in modeling huh?
A few years back, the old Frisco Museum sold an old Frisco Promotional movie about the Frisco radio system and its use. I will dig it up, and see if there's a date on it. Here's some information that might be of interest. See attached documet. By 1955 the following yards had switch engines, which were equipped with radios: Lindenwood Springfield Yale Birmingham Tulsa OKC Sherman Ft Worth Enid Ft Scott Wichita KC Frisco passenger trains did not carry radios.
Tom - My Frisco modeling era is 1955-1964, the period when I actually watched a lot of Frisco action, in particular 1960-1964 when I lived in Rolla. Within my modeling era, however, I'm not too critical of what actually was there - frankly, if it is or was Frisco, it is OK ! I actually also have a couple of Toby 1500's (1519 and 1522) to add a little class to the place, plus I have quite a few orange/white units, though most of the roster is black/yellow cabs, hoods & switchers, plus four Racehorse E8's and one cigar band E8. There are also a couple of rogue dummy units in the shop, not yet finished - a Racehorse E8B and a B/Y FM Trainmaster hump engine. Reality does not always rule on my layout! I've also threatened to do a Racehorse PA, but that has not come to be yet. There are also a few PRR, Rock Island and GM&O units to diversify things a bit, plus two TRRA Baldwin's - all also representing other favorite roads. I do not have much of a layout, but it does not suffer for locomotives or rolling stock! In answer to your question ... the way I am doing the P2K SLSF FA1/FB1/FA1 set would be appropriate for the early 1950's - a few years after delivery, before repowering or re-turboing, before radios, but with some things added since delivery, like unit numbers on the side of the nose, multi-chime horns, etc. The 5220 pic I mentioned makes me think of re-turboing one of the FA1's, and adding a "nail" antenna, except that the two P2K unit numbers, 5200 & 5215, are units that were re-engined, so I doubt they were re-turboed first. I don't want to go to the trouble of changing unit numbers. Yes, I do indeed use a small nail for the "nail" radio antenna. Others must do that as well - I have never seen that part available as such from DA, DW or the like. Does anyone make one? The nails I use are darn close - I first used one on an Athearn hand-painted Frisco F7 I did around 1980. Still have it! - it sits in the yard most times, along with its Athearn F7B mate, but from a distance it looks real good. Used Walthers old decals for the side grills. Enough - this is probably boring most of the forum to death! Ken |-| ps - Karl, I remember seeing that Frisco radio movie at an FMIG annual meeting I chaired here in St Louis in the early 1980's - I believe Joe Collias showed it. If you can come up with any dates for radio installation in the SLSF road freight units, let us know. Thanks.
Ken--That's about my era too and I "stretch it" some also. Not too interested in the Mandarin--I'm too much of a passenger nut. Karl--wouldntcha like to have ridden that Investor special back in the day? Wonder what kind of equipment they ran on it? Tom
Ken- I re-examined the Frisco promo movie, and no date was specified in the credits. All the cabooses depicted in the movie are the 3 window, wood variety, so the movie most likely predates the the arrival of the International wide-vision cabooses. Tom-Would have loved to been on that train. I have been looking for photos of that train, but have yet to find any.
More for the Modeling/Passenger Cars section but I recall an MR article about 15 years ago where someone used a small nail to represent a steam heat vapor trap for an HO-Scale heavyweight passenger car. It passed the 3-foot rule for me! FWIW, Ken et. al., the conversation's beyond my modeling area, but I am imbibing all of the details and thoroughly enjoying it all! Happy Holidays to all,
A small nail would also do fine for a Frisco passenger car "smoke jack." I'm an N Scaler and avid "Three-Foot-Rule" devotee. I'd just use a smaller nail. Tom
Not a lot to do with HO FA diesels--A nice little "Pike-Size Passenger Train" taken the same day as the FA-FB set below. Tulsa Union Depot 5-22-49. 4-8-2 #1503 with the "Firefly." Arthur Johnson photo (Tom Galbraith collection). Tom (TAG1014)
I've finished detailing one FA1 (SLSF 5200) and the FB1 (SLSF 5300) from my P2K SLSF ALCo FA1-FB1-FA1 set - which have been sitting on the shelf for several years. They turned out pretty nice. If I can take a decent pic of them, I'll post it along with a listing of what all I did to them. I just turned 65 (God help me!) and find that my modeling abilities are on a slow downslide. I have trouble seeing the small details (in particular on black models), even with my Optivisor, and during those small moments when a dot of paint, or a small dab of cement, is required, I have a bit of a shake to my hand. Quite disturbing! My solution is to go very slowly, to think each step through before starting it, and be very deliberate. I'm still having fun, so that's what counts! Tiny black handrails, into tiny black holes, on black models, are a real problem! A problem if you model Frisco 1st generation freight Diesels! The second FA1 is really the subject of this post. I have a pic of SLSF 5220 (referred to earlier above) that clearly shows a water-turbo retrofit, and a radio antenna, mounted. Even thouogh my second FA1 is SLSF 5215 per the P2K numbers, I intend to fit out 5215 as 5220 is in the pic- except for the second headlight, which I don't want to do for fear of messing up the model, plus I never liked the looks of it anyway. The second light in the door just messes up that handsome ALCo FA1 face. At long last, my question ..... does anyone have a listing of which Frisco FA1's (and FB1's) received a re-turbo job and got the water cooled turbo? Any dates? I would think this work took place before the repowering of some of the ALCo's by EMD, but I don't know that for sure. It would be logical to have ALCo try to solve the 244's problems, many of which dealt with the air-cooled turbo, before SLSF decided to haul many of them off to EMD for a new engine set. I'm also assuming that all of Frisco's FA1, FB1, and RS2, units were delivered with the air turbo. Can anyone confirm that? I sure do miss our dear Frisco friend, the late Lee Buffington. When these Diesel questions come up, he could have answered them in a snap ..... and give specific comments on each individual locomotive. I had many wonderful conversations with him about the Frisco roster. He did not have much good to say about the ALCo's, except that they had good styling. I still have his letters, which some day deserve to be published as a reference for serious Frisco locomotive addicts. Thanks. Ken |-|
Howdy Ken, Thanks for your post Ken. I had tried to call Lee while in Fort Worth, and am sad to confirm he is not with us now. I have a couple of sets of the P2K FA's to detail and finish adding sound for the Texas Western MRC...we need more black and tan on the layout). The club models in between 1945 and 1959, so I am curious what modifications or rebuilds were made before 1959. Your message is timely. Another question: what sound decoders would folks use for these units. I have heard the Soundtrax units are not appropriate for the FA's. Best Regards, mike
