Passenger trains that the FRISCO used in the Forties

Discussion in 'General' started by randy, Dec 4, 2003.

  1. randy

    randy Guest

    Sirs, I worked on the SLSF from 1968 to 1973. I was a switchman, foreman, brakeman & finally conductor. I am located in San Diego County (CA) and am currently a member of the 3rd rail club in Balboa Park at the model Railway Museum. I am currently undergoing a project where I am trying to find the older passanger trains that the FRISCO used in the fourties. I have the MKT-FRISCO "Texas Special" engine and cars, however, I am sure that they had passanger service that was not in the "Texas Special" livery. If you could please contact me and steer me in the right direction to find these passanger trains, I would be ever so grateful. I was aboard the No.1 Business car in the early 70s. Our president at the time was Dick Grayson. This was a very fine car. Was there a passanger train in the same livery and color scheme? It was in Pullman Green. Your assistance in this matter will be appreciated. Thank You. Randy Lockett
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2009
  2. coal dust

    coal dust Member

    Randy, while i have no info for you regarding colors i do have to say the model railway musem is impressive. My father and i visited Balboa Park Labor Day weekend of this year. We was in the area visiting family. I grew up not to far from the frisco that serviced the lead belt of South East Missouri. I was able to see the loading of frieght cars in the Viburnum yard and at points south of there at Buick mine when St. Joe lead minning was in controll. The museum is on our list to visit when we head out to San Diego agin.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2009
  3. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

    There's a lot of Frisco passenger train information right here on this chat board in the posts and photos. Click on the "All Aboard" masthead above, then select the category your're interested in. In addition to the red and silver Texas Special passenger train, the Frisco had a similar train, "The Meteor," also decorated in red and silver/stainless steel with just slightly different styled lettering. Not long after those trains were introduced in 1948, the steamlined equipment began to be mixed with conventional heavyweight equipment painted Pullman green. The Texas Special and Meteor used older equipment at times and some of the streamlined cars would appear on the Frisco's Kansas City-Florida Special train. Some of us can more than likely answer your specific questions about Frisco passenger trains. Other than the Texas Special and Meteor, most all other Frisco passenger equipment was painted Pullman green with "imitation gold" lettering.

    Edit: I hadn't noticed that the start of this thread was SIX years old! Sorry no one had replied before today...

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2009
  4. FriscoGeorge

    FriscoGeorge Frisco Employee

    Hi Randy,
    The Frisco had several Pullman Green passenger trains that ran shuttle routes from St.Louis to Springfield Missouri. I think one of them was called the "Will Rogers" and another was the "Blue Bonnet". Another joint Frisco-Katy train was the "Meteor" which looked a lot like the Texas Special. Here are some photos I found on the web of some Frisco passenger trains.

    Attached Files:

  5. The Meteor was a joint train too??? I thought Katy only worked on the Texas Special wit hthe SL-SF. I'm confussed now:confused:
  6. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    The Meteor was a 100% Frisco train, St Louis to Oklahoma. It was the pride of the Frisco.

  7. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

    The Blue Bonnet was the other joint (With the Katy) train. The Frisco segment was discontinued when the streamlined Texas Special was introduced in 1948. After 1948, it became a Katy only train from Kansas City to Texas points.
    Among Frisco passenger trains, the Meteor and Will Rogers ran from St. Louis to Oklahoma, The Sunnyland and Kansas City-Florida Special ran from Kansas City to Birmingham with connections on other lines to Florida. There was also a St. Louis to Memphis section of the Sunnyland. The Firefly and Oklahoman ran from Kansas City to Oklahoma (Firefly to Tulsa, Oklahoman originally went to Oklahoma City and later it was cut back to Tulsa). The Black Gold ran from Tulsa to Dallas and Ft. Worth. There were also connections branching off the Meteor and Will Rogers at Monett to Wichita and Ft. Smith.

  8. FriscoGeorge

    FriscoGeorge Frisco Employee

    Thanks for the info on the Meteor. Here is a picture of the train at the Newburg Terminal. I think it was in 1948, or 1950.

    Attached Files:

  9. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

    That picture is a Frisco company photo of a shakedown run for the new Meteor cars delivered in 1948. The engines were delivered a year earlier.

  10. treefrog

    treefrog Member Supporter

    Ok excuse the question but worded best I can. Did the Firefly operate under diesel power after it came in and was locomotive painted to match blue scheme? I tend to doubt but ask and what type locomotives did she have in new diesel era? Thanks for any info as have become passenger car wealthy this season, Happy Holidays everyone!

    Thanks, Rick
  11. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

    The Firefly name was used after the steam era and the streamline engines were gone. The train was pulled usually by the red "Racehorse" E-7's and E-8's. There are photos of the train however, headed by black and yellow FP-7's of the 5040-5051 class. There weren't any blue Frisco diesel engines except for some early yard switchers in a scheme similar to the 4500-4502 Meteor 4-8-4's.

  12. treefrog

    treefrog Member Supporter

    Thanks so much! Have decals and shells to make the red units am most obliged to you. I had never seen a blue Frisco engine but I am learning. I notice many Frisco passenger trains with either boxcars or refrigeration units close to engines & units? Can you tell me which it was and any history? Thanks for any info!


  13. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

    There were Frisco express box, refrigerator and "baggage" cars frequently at the head end of passenger trains. The cars hauled expedited and perishable shipments and less than carload Railway Express Agency (The UPS and FedEx of the day) shipments.
    Those cars, including "baggage" cars also hauled U. S. Mail. So called "baggage" cars carried much more than passenger baggage. Bundles or even carloads of magazines, newspapers and catalogs were carried in baggage and other "head end" cars. The U. S. Post Office was a very large railroad customer. Mail shipped as full cars of mail all for one destination (Not sorted en route as in Railway Post Office cars) was called "storage mail." The Frisco had boxcars equipped with steam and signal lines that were painted Pullman Green. The Railway Express Agency also had their own box and refrigerator cars as well as contracting for full cars and space in the RR company cars. Converted WW II troop cars also served as express boxcars. In addition to all the above mentioned, box, baggage and refrigerator cars of other RR's could also be seen at the head end of Frisco passenger trains. Express refrigerator cars were often used to haul U. S. "storage" Mail, especially at Christmastime.

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2009
  14. treefrog

    treefrog Member Supporter

    Well you have been a blessing to me. I remember so much from my youth and after that is a world's worth I don't know. I just know matched train cars don't make a real life train where an assortment available can be more realistic. When I set something out there want to know what it is. I sure thank you and won't bother for a while! Happy Holidays, Rick

  15. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

    No bother, I'm glad to share what I'm most interested in--Just like the guys who are into modeling, building layouts, wiring and electronics. Most everybody here is willing to share in their special interest.

  16. Sirfoldalot

    Sirfoldalot Supporter Supporter

    Tom -- Very nice explanation of the services the rails provided, and well written. Enjoyed reading it.

    BTW, Your check is in "storage". :D:D
  17. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Tom, a very good synopsis. There's potentially a lot of fun to be had in passenger operations (Ken McElreath's previous Birmingham Terminal is a good example). While we won't be modeling the entire KC Union Station complex in our garage, we hope to include just enough of the express/REA docks to make passenger switching operations a nice operational highlight.

    Best Regards,

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