North Clinton Yard Operations - Layout Design Element - Operations Script

Discussion in 'Freight Operations' started by yardmaster, Mar 31, 2018.

  1. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Folks ,

    A new layout idea is really starting to gel. However, since I have found that I want a layout to be operationally interesting, I'm trying first to wrap my mind around the "why" of the yard at North Clinton.

    Using some of the later-era employee timetables - specifically ETT 35B from 12-13-1946, which is closest to my modeling era of choice, I've always been intrigued by Trains 58/59 running Clinton-KC Monday/Wednesday/Friday and then back Tuesday/Thursday Saturday, along with the Springfield-Clinton Locals #54/55 running Daily Except Sunday.

    Why not just run a daily turn to/from KC and Springfield, with Clinton cars blocked and then cut out at North Clinton?

    I'm looking at a model of just the North Clinton Yard and the depot/surrounding trackage. More on that some other day - however, I feel I really need to gauge why the local freights would stop over in Clinton, what type of car switching would occur, etc.

    I might need to backdate about 14 years based on Karl's previous post, and have "a real go'n'Jesse" to quote his father. Karl, I hope I've used that correctly. In any event, it's a million-dollar phrase.

    http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?threads/north-clinton-april-16-1929.8313/#post-64254

    Thanks, in advance, for any insight that folks might have.

    Best Regards,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2023
  2. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Even though the KC to Springfield lines through Clinton were single subdivisions, i.e., Clinton and Osceola, they were operated essentially as 4 subdivisions. The primary reason being the difficulty for crews to make a full KC to Springfield freight run with out running afoul of the hog law. Since very little through freight, if any, traveled either sub, making Clinton the center of operations made a lot of sense.

    Since posting the train register book, I have completed my notes with regard to the elegant dance that occurred daily as trains arrived and departed Clinton. A layout based solely on North Clinton and operated serially would make enjoyable sessions for a single operator or for multiple operators. Short trains trains powered by a little ten-wheelers staged off layout would be yarded, locomotives serviced, new trains made-up, and local industries serviced. Four Bullmooses would arrive and depart. Throw in the concrete interlocking tower and interchange with the Katy and one does indeed have a real go’n’ Jesse.

    What is missing for the late ‘20’s-early ‘30’s modeler is a good ten-wheeler. I would love to see a 400, 500, or 600 Class ten-wheeler
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
  3. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    My favorite pic of Frisco ten wheelers...

    SLSF_512_513_ca1908.jpg

    Andre
     
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  4. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Clearly and concisely put, Karl. Thanks very much - combined with your earlier notes, that gives me a lot to work with in terms of building a sound operating scheme first and a layout second.

    I want something that would be reasonably satisfactory to operate on my own, but that could have a larger call board for guests or for a couple of guys in town who - while not modelers - always express an interest in hearing about "the little trains" when we meet.

    Best Regards,
     
  5. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Chris,

    There is a plan in Model Railroad Planning 2008 that is for Clinton, MO, written by Paul Dolkos.

    If you would like to borrow my copy, I would be happy to send it to you.

    Bob T.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2023
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  6. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Bob,

    Thanks very much for the offer.

    I do have a copy of that MRP.

    Don't necessarily know if that was what first started me thinking about this on a subconscious level, but it at least piqued my interest.

    Best Regards,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2023
  7. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    A layout based on 1929 N Clinton, Clinton, South Clinton, and a little bit of the MKT offers some good operation possibilities. The layout could be operated by several people with train order and timetable operations, or by one person using a variation of timetable operations, i.e., a Sequential or Serial form of operation. Under this operational format, Operation A occurs before Operation B, which occurs before Operation C, etc. In short, one uses a script instead of an ETT.

    This script is based upon first quarter 1929 train movements. During this period, Osceola Sub trains to/from Grandview entered/departed North Clinton via trackage rights on the MKT and entered/left Osceola Sub trackage at South Clinton. The northern terminal of the Osceola Sub was Grandview. Osceola Sub locomotives used KCS facilities at Grandview for servicing.

    South of North Clinton, all trains used Clinton Sub trackage to Tracy Jct..

    During this time, extra trains were common. Perhaps they were turns from Clinton to Maurine/Harvey? The times in the script are "averages" based on the 1929, N. Clinton Train Register. Wild cards could be used to vary the script to simulate train delays, special circumstances, etc.

    North Clinton Yard MWF Script

    1. Clinton Sub Train 59 Daily from KC Arrives in North Clinton at 2-4 AM

    a. Leaves shorts for Osceola Sub train 51 at Grandview

    b. Power to house for service upon arrival​

    2. Clinton Roundhouse

    a. Prep Yard Engine

    b. Prep Power for 57 MWF

    c. Prep Power for 52 MWF

    d. Prep Power 75 MTWTFS

    e. Service 59’s power to return to KC on 58​

    3. Clinton Yard Crew

    a. Build train 57 MWF Osceola Sub for Ash Grove departs 7:00 AM

    b. Build train 52 MWF Clinton Sub for KC departs 8:15 AM

    c. Build train 75 MTWTFS Osceola Sub Dickey Clay Turn departs 8:50 AM​

    4. Osceola Sub Train 57 MWF Leaves 7:00 AM for Ash Grove

    5. Clinton Sub Train 52 MWF Leaves 8:15 AM for KC

    6. Osceola Sub Train 75 MTWTFS leaves 8:50 AM for Dickey Clay (16.4 south of N. Clinton)

    7. Yard Crew switches Clinton Industries

    8. Osceola Sub Psgr Train 26 Daily (Bull Moose)

    a. Arrives from Springfield 11:30 AM​

    b. Depart for KC 12:01PM​

    9. Clinton Sub Psgr Train 21 Daily (Bull Moose)

    a. Arrives 11:45 AM from KC

    b. Departs 12:15PM for Springfield​

    10. Osceola Sub Psgr Train 27 Daily (Bull Moose)

    a. Arrives from KC 12:30 PM

    b. Departs for Springfield 1:00 PM​

    11. Clinton Sub Psgr Train 20 Daily (Bull Moose)

    a. Arrives 12:15 PM from Springfield

    b. Departs 12:45 PM for KC​

    12. Osceola Sub Train 51 MWF Arrives 1:00 PM from Grandview

    a. Power to house for service​

    13. Clinton Sub Train 54 MWF Arrives 1:30 PM from Springfield

    a. Power to house for service​

    14. Osceola Sub Train 70 MTWTFS Arrives 2:30 PM from Dickey Clay

    a. Power to house for service

    15. Osceola Sub Train 73 MWF Arrives 3:00 PM from Ash Grove

    a. Power to house for service​

    16. Yard Crew builds Clinton Sub train 58

    a. Yard engine to house for service​

    17. Clinton Sub Train 58 Daily Departs 6:30PM For KC

    18. Clinton Roundhouse

    a. Service Power from 51

    b. Service Power from 54

    c. Service Power from 70

    d. Service Power from 73

    e. Service Yard Engine​

    -END-
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2023
  8. Matt Calahan

    Matt Calahan Member

    Karl,

    Thanks for the "A Day in the life" rundown.

    Very eye opening to those who love trains and modeling but don't have a real understanding or experience with prototype operations.

    Much appreciated!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2023
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  9. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Karl,

    That is a phenomenal operating scheme and best of all it is based in reality. Since the track work for Clinton at that time period is a known quantity, it is readily reproducible.

    In that script is the basis for the creation of a timetable for the layout, so Timetable and Train Order (TTTO) operations are possible, allowing greater variability in traffic to provide more lasting "play value" for operators.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2023
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  10. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Karl,

    I like it!

    One question for which I can't seem to find answers: I'd presume that the North Clinton Yard and spur from Clinton Jct. to the Clinton Sub depot would have all been within yard limits?

    Hence, any locals, movements of power, etc. would have authority to move within yard limits, while protecting against superior trains?

    The sequence you've outlined also makes me wonder if a North Clinton and environs-only layout could get away without a pretty low fast clock ratio. If operating in a scripted sequence as you've outlined, makes me wonder if a 1:1 ratio would be doable.

    Lots to think about and to start sketching out.

    Best Regards,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2023
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  11. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Chris,

    All you describe would have been in Yard Limits.

    I think a 2:1 fast clock ratio would be about right as long as you aren't tied to the concept of an eight hour shift.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2023
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  12. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    As Keith noted, the Clinton environs are protected by Yard Limit Rules.

    ETT_Yard_limits.JPG

    I believe that one "advantage" that a scripted operation offers is freedom from the clock. Each "movement" is dependent upon the previous movement.

    Rule 1 always applies, however, and some type of hybrid operational scheme is well within the realm of possibility.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2023
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  13. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks very much, gents.

    I do like the idea of at least starting with a sequenced script and then judging later if a fast clock is either acceptable or desirable.

    Already have a spot designated to start on the depot and adjacent trackage as a hand laid track test bed.

    Best Regards,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2023
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  14. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    As I continue to kick this layout idea around, I am wondering if anyone has Missouri-Kansas-Texas (MKT) Railroad ETT data for Clinton, preferably 1940s?

    Or, alternatively if they either point me in the right direction or send a PM with further details.

    I've not had any luck searching either the Katy Historical Society site or elsewhere.

    Best Regards,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2023

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