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ANOTHER GREAT FRISCO RAFFLE!

Magor 4750 cu. ft. Covered Hopper (Help Needed)

Discussion in 'New Products' started by FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018), Jul 2, 2011.

  1. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    ExactRail has announced production of an all new model for them, the Magor 4750 cu. ft. covered aluminum hopper. The Frisco purchased 100 of these in 1965 and they had very distinctive orange lettering. This is the car in the middle picture of page 103 of Nick Molo's Frisco/Katy color equipment book.

    Does anyone have or know where I can find any more photos of this car.
     
    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018), Jul 2, 2011
    #1
  2. renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013)

    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013) Passed away March 8, 2013

    Bob, Can you give me the Road numbers, then I can look for pictures.
     
    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013), Jul 3, 2011
    #2
  3. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Richard, those Magor 4750 cu. ft. covered aluminum hoppers would be in the 86000 - 86099 road number series.
     
    klrwhizkid, Jul 3, 2011
    #3
  4. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    Does anyone on the forum either own or have access to a copy of the book The Magor Car Corporation by Edward S. Kaminski? If so, does it contain any pictures of the 4750 cu. ft. hopper discussed in this thread and also a list of the total number of these cars produced and the quantity for each buyer?

    Thanks in advance.
     
    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018), Jul 3, 2011
    #4
  5. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Bob - Yes, I have Ed's Magor book. I don't recall there is any Frisco in it but I have not read it cover to cover. I'll check and get back to you.

    Ken
     
    meteor910, Jul 3, 2011
    #5
  6. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Bob - I'm wrong again! (not unusual for me)

    In Ed Kaminski's book "The Magor Car Corporation", Signature Press, 2000, ISBN 1-930013-04-3, there are two mentions of the Frisco. One is for Magor side-dump cars, and the only mention is that the SLSF bought some. There are a bunch of generic drawings of side-dumps, but nothing specific to the SLSF, and several photos (with a real nice pic of an ATSF car).

    The other mention is indeed regarding the 4750 ft3 aluminum three-bay hopper cars. There is a poor Magor builders photo of the SLSF cars with no lettering showing except a FRISCO on the side which looks like it was put on by a photo-retouch. There are a few other pics of this same car built for others which are better pics - too bad SLSF didn't get a pic of a finished car. There is no summary of all the cars built of this class, but I gather from the book that there were quite a few others. There is a Magor total order list, but I can't tell how many of the aluminum covered hoppers were 4750's as there were other sizes as well. There is a set of 4750 generic Magor drawings of the car, p192-193, though they are pretty small.

    Following is the caption on p113 on the Frisco builders pic: "St Louis-San Francisco Railway (SLSF 86000), a 4750 cubic foot, 3-compartment aluminum covered hopper with 100-ton trucks built in September, 1965 from an order for 100 on Lot #15006. Cars were equipped with a 20-3/4 inch by 47 foot, 9-1/2 inch trough roof hatch cover opening, three 24-inch by 30-inch center discharge gravity outlets and Morton steel running boards. The cars were built as SL-SF series 86000-86099". The pic has a title block "Built by Magor Car Corporation, Clifton, NJ, 15006-4".

    I worked with ACF quite a bit while I was in the chemical industry (bought several series of tank cars ACF built at Milton, PA), but I never met or worked with Ed.

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2011
    meteor910, Jul 3, 2011
    #6
  7. renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013)

    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013) Passed away March 8, 2013

    Bob, I have two pictures of the 86000 series hopper cars.
     

    Attached Files:

    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013), Jul 4, 2011
    #7
  8. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks guys! Now referencing Ken's post about the type of equipment on the cars:

    "Cars were equipped with a 20-3/4 inch by 47 foot, 9-1/2 inch trough roof hatch cover opening, three 24-inch by 30-inch center discharge gravity outlets and Morton steel running boards. The cars were built as SL-SF series 86000-86099".

    We will need to look at the detail photos, and with ExactRail there will plenty, and hopefully conclude that the above referenced features on the model are the same as the ones that they are producing. If so, then I will request a Frisco version on the next production run. Since these were built in 1965 they should appeal to a large group of us modeling various periods in the last 15 years of the railroad's existence.
     
    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018), Jul 4, 2011
    #8
  9. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    Bob, my 1979 ORER shows 91 of these cars still in service. Guess I will need every number they produce.
     
    Rick McClellan, Jul 4, 2011
    #9
  10. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    They certainly seem to have gotten very dirty quickly. Wonder if that was a function of the aluminum body? I have a pic of 86018 I copied from somewhere that shows it just as dirty as Richard's pic of 86025.

    Bob - Attached is a Frisco diagram of the cars listing their equipment. They rode on 100-ton ASF "Ride Control" roller bearing trucks.

    Ken
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2011
    meteor910, Jul 4, 2011
    #10
  11. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    ExactRail has now posted detail shorts of the first six offerings of the Magor Hopper (5 roadnames + undecorated kit). It is in their Platinum Line which is their best and therefore the retail of the RTR cars at $44.95 (Ouch!) reflects that but by their previous offering it will be worth it.

    Would someone like Ken or Richard or anyone else with that level of expertise on equipment types go into the below link and look at the doors, etc. and tell me whether or not these match the equipment of the Frisco ones. These all look to be the same at first glance but I might have missed something.

    http://www.exactrail.com/model-trains?product_type=1871
     
    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018), Jul 5, 2011
    #11
  12. Rancho Bob

    Rancho Bob Member

    I cannot address the potential for differences between the model and the FRISCO cars, but I can say there are some between the model and the prototype as far as the ACL car is concerned. For all of us, the first hurdle is the paint. These cars were basically bare aluminum, something that mass produced models simply cannot replicate. Ok..that being said, you could do it for FRISCO by purchasing the undec kit and utilizing the materials and methods practiced by aircraft modelers, I would imagine you could come up with a pretty decent aluminum FRISCO car. For us , we are stuck with a "grey-ish" car.

    Secondly there are grab iron differences. Compare this photo from rrpicturesarchive.net with the ACL model. I would not call this a deal breaker however. I've included the link and the photo...I don't know which one will be more usable.

    http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=610989


    Buck Dean
    ACL & SAL HS
    Jacksonville, FL
     

    Attached Files:

    Rancho Bob, Jul 6, 2011
    #12
  13. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Bob - Kind of hard to evaluate the door mechanism, brake, truck, and hatch cover details from the posted pics of the first batch of ExactRail aluminum 4750's. Can they advise us of what types of details for these areas they have included in the first series of cars? We can then compare those vs the Frisco diagram.

    From the pics as posted, they look pretty good. Buck mentioned grab iron differences on the ACL cars - good catch. I'll need to go back and have a look re Frisco. Part of our problem is the lack of good prototype pics let alone good model pics.

    Ken
     
    meteor910, Jul 6, 2011
    #13
  14. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Looks like we do not have the same grab iron differences on a Frisco Magor 4750 vs the Exactrail model as Buck notes exist on the ACL Magor 4750 vs the model.

    Ken
     
    meteor910, Jul 6, 2011
    #14

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