Livestock Operations - Materials and Resources Needed

Discussion in 'Freight Operations' started by yardmaster, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Folks -
    I'm trying to gather bits and pieces of information on Livestock Operations on the Frisco, with the eventual goal being a comprehensive "Meteor" article. A couple of questions:

    (1) If anyone has photos of stock cars/stock pens, please let me know via Private Message.

    (2) Likewise, if anyone has other resources that they've not posted here, or previously published in the old FMIG newsletters, please PM me. For example, Ken W. has posted ICC Livestock Loadings from 1950. This type of background materials's great.

    (3) Does anyone have contact info for Vince Griesemer, or are you out here, Vince? I have a couple of outstanding Frisco stock car photos that he provided me years ago, and I'd like to request permission to include them in the article.

    Best Regards,
     
  2. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    Chris,

    This would be an interesting article. There was a similar article done in the Warbonnet (ATSF) several years ago that was done rather nicely showing the flow of livestock traffic on the Santa Fe. If we could get that sort of info, jackpot! It would also be great to know when livestock operations ceased on the Frisco.

    I have heard from a lot of people that livestock wasn't always shipped to the slaughterhouse. During summer months I have heard that cattle was shipped north to the grasslands to feed for the summer and then returned south. Not sure if any of that traffic ran across the Frisco but, again, very interesting stuff.

    Another interesting tidbits could include

    1. How livestock was shipped? For example, was it handled in unit trains or only on the head end of fast freights?
    2. Where were the big ranches that would have shipped multiple carloads?
    3. Where did most of the livestock traffic on the Frisco go? Kansas City? Chicago (via who?)?
    4. What were the Federal laws governing transport, feeding and resting of live animals? Did it ever change significantly?


    Thanks for doing this article. I will be scrounging through my meager archives and see what I have. Ken Wulfert, Don Wirth? Hey what do you guys know?
     
  3. renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013)

    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013) Passed away March 8, 2013

    The three old station list books posted on this website, have a list of them in the back that has all Frisco Stock pens on the system. The northern division B & B book has all of the stock pen dimensions in it.
     
  4. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    Chris, what time frame are you looking at? Even though its not frisco when the KCFS&G (later KCFS&M) built the line that when acquired by the frisco would become the ash grove sub, there were several small stock pins along the way that were there between 1880-late 1880's. I'm talking about places like Hornaday (between Lamar and Iantha) and there was another one in the area were the line crosses what is now Missouri hwy 43. But these two that I refer to were gone by 1886 (not on the 1886 plat map my grandpa has.) My point is depending on the era your looking at will depend on having these little pins I'm talking about on the route.

    Ethan
     
  5. Joseph Toth

    Joseph Toth Member

    Does any member know if the Frisco delivered any livestock to the Ft. Worth stockyards? Did any livestock traffic originate on the Ft. Worth & Rio Grande when it was under Frisco rule? I assume if the answer to either question is yes, it was handed over to the Ft. Worth Belt who switched the stockyards unless other railroads had an agreement with the FWB to switch there too?

    It would be neat if a few stock cars were spotted at the stockyard historical landmark to give the place some "spice!"

    Unrelated perhaps, but there were cattle guards located on the Frisco's mainline at Farmers Branch just north of Valley View Road in the early 50s. My guess is that they were installed all along the line from Irving to Sherman and on into Oklahoma. Anyone know? Don't forget to add them on your layouts! Might be my first G scale scratchbuilding project.

    Looking forward to the artical. Will bring out the cowpaddy in me!

    Joe Toth
     
  6. Friscotony

    Friscotony Member

    A co-worker of mine grew up on a farm near the town of Latham, Kansas. He remembered that during his childhood in the 40's & 50's, that they would go down to the railroad and unload a car or two of cattle that had been shipped up from Texas for summer grazing on their farm. They would 'drive' the cows down the dirt roads to the farm and then repeat the process in the late fall. Thus, you could set up a small cattle pen and repeat this type of operation without a big stock yard setting.

    Tony
     
  7. friscomike

    friscomike Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Howdy folks,

    I'll bump this thread in hopes of more information.

    The Frisco did serve the Fort Worth Stockyards according to the little information I can find (track diagrams). Does anyone have information from time tables that might indicate the frequency and trains that delivered the cattle cars? The Fort Worth Belt railroad did a lot of the stock yard shuffling, but several railroad trains delivered and picked up cars from there.

    We are building the new Texas Western representing the majority of Tarrant Country (Fort Worth), and I am still pursuing any information I can about the Frisco's activities in Fort Worth area between 1945 and 1962.

    Happy rails,
    Mike Corley
     
  8. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Mike, it's good to see you around these parts. Thanks, too, for the bump. I'm afraid I'm as ignorant as I always was in matters of livestock operations.

    That said, I did run across "The Station Agent's Blue Book" online. I believe that Tony Thompson may have listed this on his blog:

    http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015011139303;page=root;view=image;size=100;seq=5;num=i

    Pages 108-111 pertain to Livestock; page 110 also includes a generic livestock waybill that might be of interest.

    Best Regards,
     
  9. friscomike

    friscomike Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    @ Chris - Thanks Chris, I'll check it out. ~mike
     
  10. friscomike

    friscomike Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter


    Howdy folks,

    I'll bump this again and second Ricks questions about live stock operations. We are designing the Fort Worth stockyards, tracks and operating sessions at the Texas Western and trying to find tracks used, operations, where cattle came from, etc.

    Have fun,
    mike c
     
  11. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Mike,
    This bump comes at an interesting time. I've been pondering the recent photo from Wittenberg, MO.

    Wittenberg, Missouri

    The stock pen here appears to be whitewashed. I don't believe that I've ever seen any stockyards given this treatment. It doesn't really address things from an operations standpoint, but I found it interesting.

    Need to get off my rear and do a little further digging on this one.
     
    friscomike likes this.
  12. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    From the Monett Times, 1909...
    The_Monett_Times_Fri__Apr_2__1909_.jpg
     
  13. friscomike

    friscomike Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Thank you Karl, that is terrific.
     
    Ozarktraveler likes this.
  14. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    35000 car loads of cattle, that's a lot of meat.

    Joe
     
    Ozarktraveler likes this.
  15. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Or jerky. LOL
     
    Ozarktraveler and Joe Lovett like this.

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