Joint depots/agencies

Discussion in 'General' started by Joseph Toth, Jul 29, 2011.

  1. Joseph Toth

    Joseph Toth Member

    Looking over the information posted so far on the station threads I am wondering how many depots and/or yards that the Frisco provided for foreign carriers and vice versa.

    Examples are the Carrollton, Texas, Cotton Belt depot. It was owned and operated by the SSW but also performed general duties as well as serving as a train order station for the Frisco and Katy as well.

    The other was the Santa Fe´s East Dallas Yard in Dallas. It performed general duties, switching (which included handling the cabooses on the in and outbound trains) and served as a train order station as well for the Frisco and Louisiana & Arkansas (KCS).

    Am sure the Frisco did the same, by providing services for other railroads on their system as well.

    Frisco Folks please respond!

    Joe Toth
    The Trinity River Bottoms Boomer
  2. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    Hmmmmmm "Joint Depot"? One thing comes to mind: all of the Union Stations that the Frisco had tracks to. Kansas City is one. I'm not sure how many others there were. Maybe some one else could fill in the blanks?

  3. renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013)

    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013) Passed away March 8, 2013

    Frisco station list #17, starting on page 100 list hundreds of joint agencies on the list. The list is posted on this web site.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2011
  4. Joseph Toth

    Joseph Toth Member

    Sorry that I wasn´t more specific with my question. The metropolitan areas like St. Louis, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Dallas and Ft. Worth (in the dark ages?) were indeed joint stations for passenger operations. I was interested in the freight agencies where Frisco provided the service for themselves and foreign railroads. Like I mentioned, Carrollton, Texas, and ATSF´s East Dallas Yard were joint agencies and performed the services for Frisco. This was more economical for Frisco to pay a percentage to SSW (Carrollton) and ATSF (E.Dallas) than hiring and paying their own personal agent.

    Passenger express is another area to ponder of course. I assume each railroad handled its own before the advent of REX? So, did Frisco and other carriers have agents at the metropolitan stations until the creation of REX and after they took over the express shipment business I assume the agents bid on jobs at the smaller stations and depots? Many railroads maintained downtown ticket offices who might have accepted the preperation of the express shipment with the customer delivering his own merchandise to union station himself? This improved when the railroads started to use the pickup and delivery services when trucks started to appear on the scene. Photos of these operations in the dark ages would be interesting! Even later motor freight service provided by the Frisco and other lines were largely passed over by railfans in favor of the shiney new diesels running out on the mainline!

    If these questions have come up before and are posted elsewhere please refer me to same. Greenhorns still need to find their way around the yard!

    Joe Toth
    The Trinity River Bottoms Boomer
  5. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member Staff Member Supporter

    I can think of two off the top of my head:

    Frisco-Katy depot at Durant, OK, on the diamond.

    Frisco-Santa Fe depot in Paris, Texas. The yard's switching duties were also rotated between each railroad.
  6. Joseph Toth

    Joseph Toth Member

    The joint agency concept has its advantage to provide a modeler with the opportunity to add the locomotives of other lines to his or her Frisco operations. I notice there seems to be a lot of lady modelers in Z scale by the way! I met a very attractive fraülein when I was a passenger service rep for the German Ry. in Nuremberg, Germany, several years ago! Alas, she boarded a train to Frankfurt never to be seen again...I cried a tankcar full of tears for days after that encounter...LOL (No, I am happily married to my own frau...44 years and counting!).

    Carrollton, Texas, was really cool since it was served by three railroads! The Frisco/Cotton Belt diamond, before relocated in the 70s, was smack dab in the middle of Denton Road! In the Good Old Days there was a tower that controlled the movements of trains through town. When the tower was closed down modern interlocking took over these duties. (Progress?) Carrollton was a train order station and the Frisco seemed to get more orders handed up during the summer of 1961 when I spent a lot of time visiting with the agent there, Ken Dafft.

    Modern communications and belly pack locomotive controls have all but eliminated the railroading a lot of us remember in a time when there was no overkill security to give you a hard time just parked near the right of way (even on public property!) to watch the trains run. I miss the old days!

    Joe Toth
  7. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Joe, at home I have a 1925 list of joint depots/agency operations between the Frisco and other roads. I will try to take a look this week and see if it includes any pertinent information.

    Scissorbill Folk, maybe someone can confirm: wasn't the Hoxie Depot a joint Frisco-MoP operation? I think that Leachville, AR was also a joint Frisco-SSW depot?

    Best Regards,
  8. Joseph Toth

    Joseph Toth Member

    Thanks for the info. Joint agencies weren´t uncommon of course but for the modeler can provide that extra amount of interesting operation and running power of another railroad which leads to the investment of more locomotives and cabooses. This helps the area hobby shop remain in bizz too.

    What about common territory where the QA&P and AT&N interchanged with the Family Jewel? I assume there was just one agent who handled the bizz for both roads unless there was some agreement with the unions to provide dual agents though this seems unlikely.

    Joe Toth
  9. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Supporter

    I believe that the depot in Fredonia, KS was one as it served both the Frisco and the Santa Fe. The one in Severy, KS may have also been one before that Santa Fe line was abandoned.
  10. mvtelegrapher

    mvtelegrapher Member

    Bob is correct both Fredonia and Severy were joint depots with the Santa Fe as well as Burrton, Kansas with the Santa Fe. At one time Pleasonton was joint with the Missouri Pacific, if I sit down and go through a list of stations I could come up with several more.

    John Chambers
  11. timothy_cannon

    timothy_cannon Member Supporter

    A few off the top of my head, Dudley MO(MP(Iron Mtn.)), Parma MO (SSW), Zeta MO (SSW), Perryville Jct. (Cape Girardeau and Chester),Lilbourn (SSW)..............................
  12. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Tim -
    Ah, good one! I've always thought that Lilbourn would make a good layout element, what with the joint depot and 2 separate Cotton Belt crossings in town. Provided that the SL-SF makes for the primary action, with the SSW coming out of a live staging/fiddle yard. But, I digress...

    Best Regards,
  13. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    I think you can add Wister, OK to that list. One depot serving both the Frisco and the Rock Island? I'm not positive.

  14. slsf580

    slsf580 Member

  15. john

    john Supporter

    The 1926 List of Stations (on this website) lists almost 75 joint agencies. It's interesting the way history worked them out. Frisco has the well known one with the KCS in Fort Smith but their joint agency with the Midland Valley is listed as Rock Island, OK.

  16. Joseph Toth

    Joseph Toth Member

    Thanks to all the Frisco Folks for providing all the information on the joint agencies thus far. I find it very interesting since several modelers have purchased foreign diesel power and want to know how to integrate it into their Frisco operations. With so many agencies listed from the steam era, steam/diesel transition to the second generation of diesels when many railroads closed down agencies and provided agents company vehicles to service the on-line customer the modeling ideas increase giving modelers unlimited possibilities on how to better design the time period they plan to model.

    Wonder if there are any layouts or dioramas with boarded up depots with an agent´s vehicle parked in front of a grain elevator for example? A new twist to bringing a layout into modern operations! If that other railroad has "left town" the remains of the weed grown track, removed diamond or abandoned right of way can also be included. The interchange track might still be in place and even a section of the other railroad´s track still in use as car storage for grain hoppers perhaps or serving an industry located on the former railroad´s track now serviced by the Frisco perhaps requiring a back up and shove move across the diamond to reach and service the rail customer.

    More ways to conclude that model railroading is indeed fun!

    Joe Toth
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2011
  17. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    I just came across this thread. The AT&N was built prior to Frisco's Pensacola sub. Since Aliceville, AL was founded and named after the AT&N builder's wife, I would assume the AT&N had a depot there before the Frisco arrived. The AT&N shared a small depot where it crossed the Meridian & Bigbee RR at Cromwell, AL. At Reform, AL, the AT&N had a depot on the east leg of the wye - seperate from the earlier Mobile & Ohio depot. The AT&N's wooden Reform depot is still standing at a private residence but Is sadly rotting away.
  18. M&A Guy

    M&A Guy Member

    Seligman, MO and Wayne MO both served Frisco and Missouri & Arkansas/Missouri & North Arkansas prior to M&A abandonment. M&A had trackage rights over Frisco between those two points. Both depots are gone now.
  19. Here is one in Arkansas;
    Mansfield depot burnt down; built was Mansfield Station (brick).
    Located at the southern end of the
    SLSF Jenson - Mansfield Branch.
    They belonged to the CRI&P and shared them with the Frisco.

    431.1 Jenson (near Arkansas-Oklahoma State Line).

    SLSF Jenson - Mansfield Branch;
    429.3 Jenson
    447.2 Mansfield, with a yard & Wye, etc. 17.9 mils
    Mansfield Station was at mp 271.1 on the CRI&P's mainline.


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