Joint Convention with MPHS in 2014

Discussion in 'Conventions and Meets' started by wmrx, Oct 13, 2012.

  1. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Supporter

    When the idea that a joint convention with the Missouri Pacific Historical Society in the Joplin area was mentioned to me by a friend that went to their convention, my first reaction was “How soon!” Having said that, I would like to present 3 reasons which I will refer to as principles of why I feel this way.

    First and foremost, I strongly believe in the principle of “Strength in Numbers”. If each individual group can draw in the neighborhood of 40+ attendees, then there is no reason why a joint well-planned and coordinated meeting could draw in excess of 100. Keith Robinson has already estimated up to 120!

    Secondly I am a profound believer in the principle of thinking “Out of the Box”. That means coming up with clinics and other activities that draw enough interest that some naysayers that like to fall back on the old adage of “same ole’, same ole’” will be hard pressed to do so. One example that comes to mind would be a joint clinic chaired by a member of each group that focused on Diesel Motive Power purchases and how and why they differed or were the same between the two railroads. Others could focus on operational differences, modeling trackwork, and scenery construction. The main point here is to tailor at least 50% of the clinics that would be of joint interest to both groups.

    The third basic principle is “Location is Everything”. A previous poster suggested that the only locations suitable in his mind would be Kansas City or St. Louis. At first glance that makes complete sense. Using the “Out of the Box” analogy, the Joplin area is to me the perfect place to go, but only if the resources available were properly utilized and explored. Within a 30 mile radius of Joplin are at least 5 attractions highlighting the rich mining heritage of the area including museums in Galena, Pittsburg, Baxter Springs, and Big Brutus. Also, centered in that area is the wonderful Heart of the Heartlands complex at Carona. I am not discounting the possibility of another train ride as was held at the first Frisco Convention, but only mentioning this as alternative as it would be less confining and more attractions could be seen. Of course it would be nice to focus some of the clinic topics as a lead in.

    In conclusion, Jim Senese’s suggestion of the formation of a steering committee is a good one as there is a full two years’ time to brainstorm ideas and make this the best convention yet for both groups. I hope this message serves to get people to thinking of ideas of their own to propose instead of prejudging this on what they have seen offered or actually attended in the past.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2012
  2. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member Staff Member Supporter

    Add to this list the M&NA's yard in Carthage, the refurbished trolley in Webb City, and the occasional KCS freight (sacrilege, yes, but the main runs thru Joplin). At any rate, Neosho, MO has both KCS and BNSF rolling thru, so some CLass 1 railfanning is possible (and the BNSF line is the ex-Frisco Cherokee Sub).

    Now, while we are looking at joint conventions in '14, does this mean we forget about planning a separate Frisco convention in 2013? I would hope not, or am I concerned over nothing?
  3. SteveM

    SteveM Member Supporter

    Kevin and I talked about this before it was proposed to the MOPAC group a couple of weeks ago in North Little Rock. (He has railroaded me onto their board.) They have the same issue of needing someone to step up every year. Bob and Bob have recited some of the attractions. I would envision some joint clinics and some that might be of primary interest to one group. MP and T&P mailcars anyone? Perhaps not, but the history of the Joplin Uniion Terminal and the other passenger depots? Maybe some Katy folks will even show up, and of course we can publicize it with KCS folks. We might convert some of them!
    Hey, there are some interesting folks in the MP society and long term it makes sense to learn to play together.
    Let's hear some more ideas about clinics, contacts who could provide first hand info.
    I'm sure Kevin doesn't intend to supplant a 2013 event. MPHS will be in Pueblo, CO in October 2013 and hopefully some DRGW folks will cooperate. When someone volunteers to do 2015 we will be highballin'.
  4. tomd6 (Tom Duggan RIP 2/11/2018)

    tomd6 (Tom Duggan RIP 2/11/2018) Passed Away February 11, 2018

    Joplin certainly has a lot going for it. Our local NRHS Chapter seriously considered Joplin for a regional event in 2011. We ultimately decided on Springdale, due to availability of Arkansas & Missouri RR trains.
    Like Steve M I went to the to the 2012 MPHS Convention in North Little Rock. Several of the presentations suffered from way too small print in Power Point, something that can be corrected easily by previewing presentations.The MPHS event also had nothing in the way of printed material about Little Rock, AR railroading scene.
    I wonder if this group could work with MPHS people since we could not even arrange our own event this year apparently due to inadequate member participation..
  5. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Supporter

    I sincerely hope that no one feels that our group cannot or will not be able to work with the MPHS people as Tom seems to maybe imply. The failure of the 2012 meet to come to fruitation probably could be attributed to many things, but least of which was the effort of some very caring and well meaning people trying as hard as they could to fulfill the wishes of the group as a whole to have one.

    I propose we move on with the idea of a steering committee to meet with MPHS counterparts and quit making issues of what happened this year. I for one feel that it's past history and should have no meaning or influence on the future.

    Respectfully submitted.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2012
  6. wmrx

    wmrx MP Trainmaster

    There has been a lot of good discussion on this subject over the last few days and I don't know exactly where to start my reply.

    I grew up in Carthage, MO right next to the Missouri Pacific yard. Because of that, the MP will always be near and dear to my heart. But, the Frisco was the other railroad in town. And, as a young railfan, I developed an affinity for this railroad as well. I went to work for the MP, as a brakeman, in 1978 and I worked out of Carthage for many years. We ran over the Frisco between Aurora and Springfield, and interchanged lots of cars with them at Carthage and Joplin. Because of this, I got to know lots about the Frisco and its employees. I like all railroading and the owner of a particular line is secondary to my interest.

    With all that said, let's talk about the convention. I am a director at the MPHS because I thought it was time to put my money where my mouth is. The same goes for hosting the 2014 convention. As the host or convention chairman, whatever term you prefer, I have lots of leeway in putting the event together. I chose Southwest Missouri because that is where I intend to be living in 2014 and I know that there are lots of locations in this area that were served by both railroads. Springfield, Joplin, Carthage, Aurora and a few other locations were on my mind when I volunteered. As others have pointed out, there are lots of potential activities that would be hard to do elsewhere. I look forward to the input of others in choosing an exact location.

    I would welcome all the help I can get. The agenda does need to be of interest to all parties that might attend. I like the "out of the box" idea as Bob suggested. The MPHS conventions are still good, but they could easily become mundane without some new ideas and "fresh blood." There are a few items that must or can be organization specific. For example, the MPHS must have a meeting of their board of directors and a seperate general membership meeting. Hopefully, attendance would be of sufficient numbers to support multiple rooms which would allow for different venues at the same time. We will just have to see what we can do.

    I'm running out of time, so I will finish on this note. John Chambers and Jim Senese, I accept your offers to be part of the team. Steve Marquess, you've been railroaded, again.
  7. tomd6 (Tom Duggan RIP 2/11/2018)

    tomd6 (Tom Duggan RIP 2/11/2018) Passed Away February 11, 2018

    It was not my intent to disparage the efforts of those who attempted to set up the 2012 Frisco org convention and of course I was not aware of what items caused the project to collapse. A joint effort with MPHS in 2014 seems a very interesting idea that warrants our interest and more importantly tangible support.
  8. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Supporter


    I honestly feel that you were intending to disparage anyone. As I said in my previous post, I feel that several well meaning people put many hours into making the convention a reality. Honestly, probably a lot was learned that will end up making the next one even better starting out with getting an earlier start.
  9. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member Staff Member Supporter

    While I admit freely to being a Frisco modeler, I followed & shot the comings & goings of the MoPac in Van Buren and Ft. Smith when I lived there in 1979-1982. Both railroads paralleled each other all the way thru Ft. Smith, and the closeness to the yard in Van Buren made it easy for me to shoot whatever the Mop had running. I even have 3 MP locomotives in my HO scale roster, and have built at least four GP35Ms for Mop and Kiamichi (which wound up with 4 of them at its startup).

    What happened this year, happened. We can't go back & change things, we can only learn from what happened & move forward.

    I would have no problem with a joint convention, but I guess my question would be: what does the general membership of the MPHS think of such an idea? It seems to be favorable from what I've read here (at least no negative comments have piped up so far ), so I would be interested in what the MP folks think.

    As far as volunteering, I would like to humbly offer my services for such a venture.
  10. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    This MPHS member thinks it would be a good idea to try a joint meeting. They (MPHS) have had some prior success with joint meetings with other RR societies.

  11. slsf580

    slsf580 Member

    Joplin, Missouri sounds like a great place to have the convention. For railroad history buffs, this town has an amazing history - from Matthias Splitlog to the Mr. Curtis' designed Joplin Union Depot to a parade of Frisco passenger trains going every direction, MP, KCS....Not to mention the remaining structures and railfan possibilities in close proximity.
  12. arkrail

    arkrail Member Supporter

    As one who was heavily involved with several others in putting on the Little Rock MPHS convention this year, I think the idea of a joint convention is an excellent proposal. All RR historical societies are having a hard time maintaining membership over time -- we are 30 years and counting since the last new MP blue locomotive, and even longer since the Frisco turned green. Achieving critical mass for an annual convention is a problem that every group is facing, and one promising solution is to combine forces with joint conventions such as is being proposed. Most people are interested, to some degree, in any road that operated through their region or state. Rock Island is/was my favorite, but Mopac, and Frisco, and KCS, and Cotton Belt also are of interest.

    Some of the best conventions that I've attended in the past have been in places other than "big cities". The hotel/meeting room costs will be less, and there often seems to be a larger turnout of people, meaning more opportunity to visit and exchange information. If a show and swap meet is part of the schedule, the larger turnout of a joint meeting might even result in more dealers participating.

    Of course, clinics and other presentations need to include choices to satisfy the fans of both roads - time either evenly divided between the two roads, or else a presentation that would be of "joint" interest. By expanding the schedule to a full day on both Friday and Saturday, and part of the day Sunday, there should be ample time for everyone. If the decision is to go forth with a joint convention in 2014 in Joplin or elsewhere in SW Missouri, I will be looking forward to attending.

    Bill Pollard
  13. jimogden

    jimogden Member

    My hunch is by 2014, most of the devastation in Joplin should have been taken care of as well. If some Frisco representatives could attend the spring MoPac Historical Society convention and express their desire to have a joint meeting, I'm sure the MPHS would be delighted. From what I've seen there is no mass movement for membership one railroad historical society to another after a joint meeting even with rival railroads.

    Most of us have regional interests and the Frisco always triggers memories I had of vacations in NW Arkansas and SW Missouri.

    Jim Ogden
  14. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    What usually happens is that rather than quit one HS and join the other, you just join the second one. They don't cost much for what you get.

    That's how I wound up in over 15 of these things! Cutting back now, as I can't read all the stuff they send.

    MP and SLSF are a natural for a joint meeting.

  15. renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013)

    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013) Passed away March 8, 2013

    A question, I have no problem with the joint meet in 2014, but what are we (SLSF group) going to do about a 2013 Meet?
  16. SteveM

    SteveM Member Supporter

    The door prizes are in hand. I guess we're waiting for the proper "step up" to occur and enough people to declare their intention to attend. I would hope we could get a date set, maybe by January and folks could start planning and committing.
  17. FriscoCharlie

    FriscoCharlie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Anyone up for a Maine vacation? LOL :)
  18. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member Staff Member Supporter

    Sounds good, but will the blackfly population be reduced by then? ;)
  19. FriscoCharlie

    FriscoCharlie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    They are always gone by mid-June. :)
  20. w3hodoug (Doug Hughes RIP 03/24/2021)

    w3hodoug (Doug Hughes RIP 03/24/2021) 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    Al Kamp has a Frisco caboose in Branson and a fantastic tourist ride on that old MoPac branch. A huge hotel is right next door.

    Sandy and I love Branson. Give it a thought.

    Al is an old college friend and was a class mate of Ken Wulfert's. We can probably get him to be our conductor.


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