Grain Ops Question

I am planning on having a Grain elevator on my layout since Grain has been the #1 commodity for ages especially in Kansas. However, in 1935-1955, what types of cars did FRISCO use to haul their grain? Did they use the boxcars equipped for it or did they have hoppers in those days. If anyone can answer this an/or provide pictures. I am looking to model my grain elevator as part of my switching ops.
Thanks
Will

 

Re: Grain Ops Question.

Well, I'm not sure when exactly FRISCO would have started getting grain hoppers but until the late 50's grain was moved around by box cars with bulk heads. There is an article on it in the May issue of MRR magazine.

 

Re: Grain Ops Question.

40' boxcars for the era you are asking about. The elevator at Blairstown, MO on the Clinton Sub was still getting 40' boxcars in the 1970's. The grain doors must have been cardboard with steel strapping. Me and my brother used to find that steel strapping stuff all over down by the tracks. Then oddly enough my grandpa would find it in his yard next time he mowed!

Dale Rush

 

Re: Grain Ops Question.

Speeking of the subject, I just remembered a story my grandpa told me last week. Iantha had a wooden grain elevator. My grandpa went to school in Iantha till 1952 when it consolidated with Liberal. But any way when the elevator was operating they would have the box cars there and some one in school thought they could chuck a bail of hay higher than one of the teachers. Well, they got on the grain elevator platform next to a car and the student tossed in the air. I can't remember how far my grandpa said it went, but then the teacher through it and it went over a box car sitting their. My grandpa moved back to the area in 72 and the elevator was closed. a few years after that it was dismantled.

 

Re: Grain Ops Question.

The April 2009 issue of Trains Magazine was devoted solely to grain traffic past and present.You should try to get it as it likely would be very helpful. If I recall correctly the use of grain hopper cars began in the early 1950s in a small way and then accelerated rapidly at the expense of box cars.
Tomd6

 

Re: Grain Ops Question.

I grew up in Buhler, KS, in the late 40's and 50's, about 2 blocks from the Frisco track. All the car that I ever saw then were box cars. In 1960 I began working for a grain company in Hutchinson, KS & continued with them until 1991 when I was transfered to Kansas City. In 1960 most of the cars we used were box cars. By the end of the 60's it was almost 100% hoppers.

We had about 40 country elevators in Western Kansas and a large terminal elevator in Hutchinson. Most of the country elevators in small towns usually had track space for 4 to 8 cars on each side of the loading spout on 1 siding track. Our terminal elev. had space for 25 cars on 3 tracks.

I have a small layout (10 1/2 X 11) and have a country elevator with track space for 4 empty & 4 loaded cars plus a terminal elevator with 2 tracks and space for 8 loaded & 8 empty cars. I am also modeling the 1950's and have box cars with a few 2-bay cement hoppers that we would use only if box cars were not available.

I hope I have been of some help. Good luck on your layout.

Jarold Esau
Kansas City, MO

 

Re: Grain Ops Question.

Did the FRISCO have any Grain Box Cars and if so is there a picture of them anywhere? I have 2 undecorated Grain Box cars and no way of knowing how to paint or decal them. Thanks in Advance!

 

Hey Will, I think just about any SLSF 40' box could haul grain. There is a photo in one of my All Aboard company magazines that show a 40' box being tipped on one end to empty out grain in Enid, OK sometime in the 1970s. I have also seen 40' box cars in grain service on the MKT in the late 1970s. I would start with the 17xxx and 18xxx cars in the standard SLSF "Ship It" paint scheme.

It is my understanding that just about any clean (no hide service, petroleum service, etc type boxes) box could become a grain car with the simple addition of a grain door. These were heavy card stock doors probably reinforced with some light wood or strapping. They were wider that the car door opening and shorter than the door height. The opening above would allow a grain spout to be inserted and the extra width kept the grain from spilling out the sides of the car. Grain doors were pretty light but they were strong enough to keep the grain in the car until the steel doors were closed. When the car was emptied, I believe that the customer destroyed the grain door to empty the car.

Pretty interesting stuff.


Note: The picture posted here found by klrwhizkid.

 

Thanks Rick, I would love to see that picture, it sounds interesting. I am looking for something in the steam era as far as the grain boxes, so it probably wouldnt have the Ship It logo, but I have alot of the FFF logo boxes that I have parked at my grain elevator now. I am looking into trying a different paint scheme that will look like some of the Athearn Grain load Boxes but with FRISCO Decals. I hope it turns out ok. I will post a pic after I get it done. I have been working on the layout when time will permit. I have been really busy with TV spots, Commercials and movies as of lately, plus I am waiting on a few items to arrive that I bought on Ebay so I can continue my upper level of the high line main and get the track laid and running so I can concentrate more on the scenery. While I am waiting for that stuff, I have been working on rolling stock and figured I would paint a few undec kits, came across these 2 and that put me in the thinking chair and I didnt get much done!

 

Rick,

From direct interviews with ex-BN employees, the grain door boxcars tended to be six-foot door forty-foot boxcars, although eight-foot doored cars were used. It was cheaper easier and stronger to build wooden grain doors for a six-foot doored cars. Since Frisco didn't have many later six-foot doored 40-footers I would suggest that the Frisco was an early convert to the covered hopper idea. Also, note that some of the rebuilt 50-foot cars had grain doors applied by Chicago Freight Car. A lot of the AA classed outside braced 40-footers would have been used in grain service. A lot of the rebuilt 40-footers that had their floors and sides strengthened and lining added were for mainly flour loading and other food ladings that used pallets and forklifts to load.

The paper Signode grain door is the company that made lightweight "paper" thick kraft paper for their doors. These were typically a one use item. However, wooden grain doors were not destroyed but collected at certain locations to be re-used. In fact, the railroads would fill an empty boxcar with these grain doors and they were shipped back to elevators. This is another load that can accurately be modeled in an operating session.

Nick

 

Jaeger products actually produces these in HO scale with either red or green lettering. They are available fom Walthers for a mere $1.00 a package. There is a picture on this link.

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/347-2000

Also here is a PDF document written by Don Holbrook that in timeline form documents the history of bulk grain loading which I found to interesting.

http://www.modelerschoice.com/Articles/grain.pdf

Now if you are really interested in this, here is a patent submitted for making one.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2739920.pdf

 

I found the All Aboard issue with the grain box car unloading photo. It was the August 1968 issue with the Enid OK article.

Looks like a 19000 series box car on the lift. I have heard that the car was tipped one direction which emtied a lot of the grain and then tipped the other direction dropping most of the remaining contents. Once the car was leveled, workers would go inside and remove the rest by scoop shovel.

It appears that only one side of the car was opened so the grain door on the near side could have survivied for another trip.

 

Rick,

Great find and a 19000 series car! One can justify using some boxcars in grain service into the late seventies it seems from Dan Holbrook's research. Obviously the numbers would be less than the covered hoppers.

I can only imagine that the large terminal elevators were still equipped with tilting mechanisms.

Has anyone been able to find where about is the McFadden mill is on the Frisco in KC?

Nick

 

Chris .. Linkey no workey?

 

That's a nice photo ... 400% increase shows it nicely.
Thanks for posting.
PS: Nice elevator too! (ignoring the UP car)

 

That is interesting. Sherrel's right, need to move the UP car

UP = Ugly Power

 

I've actually got a photo in my collection that shows outside braced boxcar 147434 with a "Frisco Lines" coonskin herald and a grain door. The photo isn't dated, and I'm not sure who I bought it from (Probably Bob's Photos or Jay Williams (from Indianapolis)).

The cars next to SLSF147434 is an all steel L&N boxcar which appears to be numbered 6270. This car also has a grain door in place. If we can find a build date for this car, that would give us an earliest possible date for the photo (though both cars are certainly weathered).

Paul