GP7 - Units With Oscillating Warning Lights - Pyle National Gyralite Or Mars Light

Discussion in 'GP7' started by pbender, Dec 21, 2008.

  1. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Hi All,

    While browsing Mike Condren's site, I ran across a photo of GP7 SLSF 560 which was equipped with an oscillating Mars light.

    http://condrenrails.com/MRP/MemphisCentralStation/Frisco-Memphis-Pass-Pixs.htm ).

    This brings about a couple of questions:

    Were there any other oscillating light equipped GP7s?

    If there were, I would assume they were boiler equipped units used on passenger trains.

    During what time period was the oscillating warning light installed on GP7 SLSF 560 and other GP7s if they were equipped with an oscillating warning light?

    The photograph on the page above is dated 4/17/1956, so we know it was installed before then.

    But when was the light installed, and how late did the oscillating warning light survive on GP7 SLSF 560?

    I have looked through my collection of books to try and find an answer to these questions, but all I have been able to determine is that GP7 SLSF 560 was traded in to EMD in October 1976.

    Paul
     
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  2. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I have been chatting with Tom Galbraith about the idea he and I both have of doing one of our Frisco GP7s as a passenger unit.

    It would have a steam generator in the short hood as evidenced by the boiler exhaust stack, boiler air inlet, and steam vent pipe up top on the short hood. In HO, we are fortunate that Details West has a steam generator parts kit, SG-118, that ideal for use on GP7s. I do not know if there is an equivalent parts kit for you N-scalers, but these things would be easy to scratch build.

    I have five Frisco GP7s, all in black and yellow color of course! These are the two Atlas models, SLSF 500 and SLSF 502. Plus I bought three others years ago from Andre Ming. They are Front Range Models, repowered, decorated as SLSF 572, SLSF 620 and SLSF 632. One of them is going to become a passenger GP7! This is a current topic for Tom as well, as he just received his Atlas N-scale GP7s.

    In addition to the steam generator details up on the short hood, you also need to add steam pipe connections to the front and rear pilots. Again, in HO, we have the parts from Cal-Scale, 275, gives you more than enough goodies to do it.

    In thinking about what to put on and where for a passenger GP7. Tom and I both also thought of Mike Condren's picture of SLSF 560. Paul refers to it in his 12/21/2008 posting above. It shows that GP7 SLSF 560 not only carries all the steam gear, but also a Mars light up high on at least the short hood. The Mars light is mounted above the normal GP7 dual sealed beam headlight fixture. In HO, Details Associates LT-1005 will do nicely for the Mars light in its housing.

    Unfortunately, I have no pictures of SLSF 560 from the rear long hood end. There are, however, two problems with the Mars light issue.

    1) Was there one on the long hood as well?

    2) In order to allow for room to mount the Mars light fixture, the Frisco had to lower the EMD dual sealed beam GP7 headlight to a lower position. I am not sure I want to do that to one of the Atlas models, but one of the Front Range GP7s just might get that treatment, along with a renumbering. Once again, in HO, we have the part to replace the EMD dual sealed beam headlight fixture, Details Associates LT-1004.

    Time will tell if I do the Mars light addition. But for sure one of them will get the steam treatment near term.

    Paul also asks the question in his post "were there any other Mars light equipped GP7s?"

    Armed with a large glass of a pleasant adult beverage, I spent much of last night sharing my time between the Oscar Awards show, way to go "King's Speech", and the task of looking through all my Frisco GP7 pictures in a hunt for Mars lights.

    I do not have pictures of each Frisco GP7, but I have most of them, and I found that at least one other unit carried an oscillating light, SLSF 606. See the attached picture, which I have had for a long time. Photographer is unknown.

    It looks like the Mars light housing is silver, rather than black as it is on SLSF 560. I have another picture of SLSF 606, which I cannot post, that shows it in its later Mandarin orange and white colors. The Mars light has been removed, as has been the steam generator equipment.

    But, they left the headlight in its lowered position. It looks kind of strange, obviously too low for that normal GP7 look. But, from this picture I can easily scale off the position of the lowered headlight if anyone else is interested.

    GP7 SLSF 606 also looks like it has a Nathan horn up on the cab roof. I like it!

    All these little detail quirks the Frisco gave us!

    Ken

    Edit 2/27/2024: GP7 SLSG 606 is clearly equipped with an oscillating Pyle National Gyralite. Its housing is oblong, with broad round corners. It is not an oscillating Mars light. Mars has a more square housing with sharper rounded corners. Compare the differences in the housings between GP7 SLSF 560 and GP7 SLSF 606.

    In both cases, they appear to be single unit application instances. It is very probable the oscillating lights were applied as a test experiment on which brand was the most durable, reliable and rugged. Other considerations surely included cost of installation, availability of replacement parts and grade crossing visibility.

    Ultimately, Pyle National Gyralites became the railroad's standard for application on new locomotives.
    MKD
     

    Attached Files:

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  3. Sirfoldalot

    Sirfoldalot Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    While you are doing the modifications, Model Railroader magazine, March 1975 has an old article on "Build A Working MARS Light". :p

    You may need more than one "adult beverage" to accomplish said task. ;)
     
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  4. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Paul,

    Excellent catch.

    I never knew any of the GP7s had this accessory feature.

    And great information Ken.

    Thanks for hanging on and collecting all those photographs!

    Great stuff.

    Thanks,

    Tom H
     
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  5. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks for the photograph of GP7 SLSF 606.

    Since both of the GP7s SLSF 500 and SLSF 502 had steam generators, I will be adding these details to my models in N-scale when they arrive.

    I am using parts scavenged from brass locomotives.

    I have another body shell I need to paint that I have always planned on turning into SLSF 632 which apparently was the last Frisco GP-7 in the original paint scheme.

    I am not sure the steam pipe line plumbing parts are available in N-scale.

    It looks like we can get the EMD twin sealed beam headlight housing from Details Associates in N-scale as well.

    Please see the following.

    http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/229-8219

    The oscillating light housings are more problematic, but I think they can be scratch built. From the photograph of GP7 SLSF 560, it appears to be a square housing the width of the flat spot on the short hood.

    I think a plastic cube with one side drilled out to hold a 700 series MV Products lens would do nicely for the N-scalers among us. If the 700 series lenses are not available in red, the 300 series lenses are, and there is not a huge size difference between the two.

    Paul
     
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  6. Friscotony

    Friscotony Member

    One of the more interesting items to me was that the GP7s equipped with steam generators had a larger tank hung on them, no doubt to hold the water.

    All of the photographs of non steam generator equipped units have a much smaller fuel tank. This is something that one must consider when assigning numbers. I am getting ready to decal 8 of them and to date, have not been able to get a small tank that I am happy with.

    The units I have been using are the old Front Range Models and one must be careful when cutting the tank area down as this is what holds the plastic motor mount for the unit. If anyone has done this with this manufacturer's frame, I would welcome any insight.

    Thanks,

    Tony
     
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  7. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Here is a picture I found of GP7 SLSF 606 much later in its life than the picture I posted above.

    Unknown date, unknown photographer. I have had it for a long time.

    Note at this time in this photograph on GP7 SLSF 606:

    1) The Mars light has been removed.
    2) The sealed beam headlight fixture remains in its lowered mounting position.
    3) SLSF 606 is now in the Mandarin orange and white paint scheme livery.
    4) The spark arrestors have been changed to the box type from the lifting screen type.
    5) The steam generator has been deactivated, probably replaced with ballast. The steam generator exhaust stack has been cut down to the tapered base.
    6) The big tank remains.
    7) Cannot see a radio antenna yet.
    8) Cannot see if the yellow beacon is still up on top of the cab.
    9) Cannot really tell if the horn is still a Nathan. Probably not.

    I love these "Frisco forensics"! :D

    Ken
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Would that be "Frisco-archaeology?"

    Tom :)
     
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  9. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    "CSI SLSF"

    News at 11.

    K :) :p ;) :D :rolleyes:
     
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  10. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Doctor Robinson has diagnosed Ken with Friscophilia.

    An almost insatiable desire and love for things Frisco.
     
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  11. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    In the Frisco Archive Photo of GP7 606, I see a Pyle National Gyralite mounted on the nose above the dual headlight.

    I do not recall seeing any other GP7 so equipped.

    Does anyone have any information about this or know of any other GP7 units with the Gyralite?
     
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  12. Oldguy

    Oldguy Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Good eye.

    I could not find one with a Gyralite, but SLSF 606 did have some kind of can light in December 1968.

    Maybe the same light but painted silver?

    Also of note, GP7 SLSF 560 had its twin lamp headlight set lower than usual.

    So maybe it had a Gyralite at one time?

    The slide is undated.

    Keith - Dave says Hi.
     
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  13. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Very good eye, sir - very good eye.

    I had not the foggiest idea that any of the GP7s were ever given Gyralites.

    Bob might be onto something with GP7 SLSF 560.

    Let the research begin.

    Best Regards,
     
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  14. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

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  15. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Since I was reminded about this thread today there is another picture.

    Another photograph of GP7 SLSF 606 with its white Pyle National Gyralite appeared in the Frisco Archive.

    http://frisco.org/mainline/2018/06/11/gp7-606-2/

    This made me note something else about this unit, there were no yellow stripes or diamonds on the flat part of the nose.

    Edit 2/27/2024: In this paint scheme the diagonal stripes did not carry onto the flat portion of the nose.
    MKD
     
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  16. kenmc

    kenmc KenMc Frisco.org Supporter

    I would wager that the oscillating was installed on the front end only.

    These engines always ran front end forward when used on passenger trains.

    Also, the fuel tanks were quite small compared to the other freight-only GP7s, which limited their range between refueling.

    The duel service freight / passenger service GP7s were originally bought for principally branch line passenger and mixed trains.

    They were not intended for mainline service like similar units on the Norfolk and Western (N&W) or Illinois Central (IC) GP7s and GP9s.

    Ken McElreath
     
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  17. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

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  18. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks, Tom.

    Sometimes I really think I need to have my memory upgraded, or I at least need to post a job aid for myself to remember to use the Frisco.org "Search" function. :)
     
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  19. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Right, the freight only Frisco GP7s had tiny 1200 gallon fuel tanks.

    But the passenger units had even smaller 800 gallon fuel tanks.

    http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?threads/frisco-mid-1950s-diagrams-8-emd-gp7.2952/

    In n-scale, modeling the passenger GP7s is much easier because the fuel tanks fill the space under the frame, and can hide the chassis. I have been planning how to modify the freight chassis to build the smaller tanks for a while, but have not actually started cutting the metal frame.

    The fuel tanks on these were actually 2 separate 800 gallon tanks. The second one was for boiler water until the boilers were removed or decommissioned Then the tanks were either modified or replaced with a 1600 capacity fuel only tank.

    Interestingly, Missouri Pacific (MP of Mop) also had small fuel tank freight only GP7s. At least some of their passenger GP7, GP9 and GP8s had torpedo tubes.
     
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  20. Thanks for all this information guys.

    I have a couple GP7s to do and this might be an interesting variation to add.
     
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