OK, JUST TO GET THINGS OUT OF THE WAY. ALL MY BOOKS ARE IN THE BACK ROOM OF THIS VERY CRAMPED SINGLE-WIDE . ONLY ONES WHO CAN GET BACK THERE ARE THE CATS...... NOW, JUST GOT MY "REDBIRDS" AND COACHES , SO I'M SO VERY HAPPY NOW. (THANKS DENNIS). MY QUESTION AFTER ALL IS IN MY TITLE. COACH NUMBERS, WHAT COLOR, AND WHAT EXPRESS CARS USED...ETC.... PLUS WHERE TO FIND THEM IN "HO"? HOPE YA'LL CAN HELP. JUST FOR FYI, WE JUST GOT ALOT OF WIND.....AND WIND.....JUST A FEW TREES DOWN. (WAS BLESSED THAT DAY FOR SURE.) LATER JASON ROSS BHAM SUB-DIV GENTRY'S GAP/BESSEMER, ALABAMA
Ken McElreath originally posted a version of this roster on Mike Condren's website and I revised it to 1959, my modeling era. It would have been virtually the same in 1952. Very few cars were retired between '52 and '59 and the only LW car not on the roster in 1952 would have been #1259 "Picardy Lane." The rest of the lightweight streamline cars were delivered in 1948, all the other cars were heavyweights from 1930 or before. --61-67 30' RPO-Coach --82, 83 15' RPO-baggage-coach --101, 106 30' RPO-baggage --134, 135 30' RPO-baggage --189-193 Coach-baggage --201-220 30' RPO-baggage --221-225 15' RPO-baggage --251-252 LW 30' RPO-baggage --304-443 Baggage --450-469 Express boxcar --492 Express refrigerator --638-643 Diner --650 LW Diner --751-769 Chair car --770-775 Chair car --1052-1088 Coach --1090-1094 Coach-dorm (aka Coach-bunk) --1095-1096 LW Coach-dorm --1201-1214 Coach (Except 1203-1207-1208-1213) --1203, 1207, 1208, 1213 Deluxe coaches --1250-1259 LW Chair car --1350 LW Sleeper-lounge-observation --1401, 1402 Lounge --1450-1466 LW 14-4 Sleeper --1503, 1506 Cafe-lounge --1550, 1551 LW Observation-diner-lounge --1601-1607 Buffet-lounge --1650-1652 LW Coach-buffet-lounge --1701, 1703 Buffet-club-coach --Memphis ex-1705 Buffet-sleeper (Different car than diner-lounge "Memphis" below) --Pensacola ex-1706 Buffet-sleeper --1808, 1809, 1810 Pullmans used as coaches --2037-2054 60' RPO --Birmingham Diner-lounge --Enid Deluxe coach --Ft. Smith Deluxe coach --Joplin Deluxe coach --Kansas City Diner lounge --Memphis Diner lounge --Okmulgee Deluxe coach --Wichita Deluxe coach Tom
What did Frisco consider the difference between a chair car and a coach? Did it, perhaps, refer to cars with or without a "Jim Crow" section?
I think it depends on who's talking: The roster in the back of employee time tables refer to the "named" cars: Enid, Ft. Smith, Joplin, Okmulgee and Wichita as "Deluxe Coaches." The Frisco Passeger Car Historical Record also refers the modernized coaches 1203-1207-1208-1213 as "deluxe" coaches in addition to the "named" cars. The 700 series cars were called "chair cars" and 1000-1100-1200 cars were called "coaches." In the 60's, most all Frisco documents and public timetables refer to all those cars as chair cars, sometimes abbreviated as "C.C." on some sheets. "JIm Crow" cars were referred to as "partitioned" or "divided" coaches. Personally, I think of a car with individual seats as a chair car and cars with "bench" type seats as "coaches." Tom
I believe that only the named cars, Wichita, Enid, Ft Smith, Okmulgee, and Joplin, were considered Deluxe cars; the 1203, 1207, 1208, 1213, which were modernized during 1945-1946 did not receive the appellation, "Deluxe". The feature that made the named cars deluxe was the "lounge" or anteroom placed outside of each restroom. Pullman passengers had access to wash rooms outside of each restroom for the passengers to perform their morning and evening ritual. The Frisco rebuilt these chair cars with the "lounges" to give the over-night coach passenger the same opportunity.
Those 1200 cars' numbers in the timetable are crowded very close to the word "deluxe," but it's referring to the named cars. However, the Frisco Passenger Car Historical Record refers to 1203-1207-1208-1213 as deluxe coaches. Tom
Tom, What is a Frisco Passenger Car Historical Record and what year is it? None of my psgr car diagrams or ETT's use this nomenclature for the modernized 1200 series cars
Ok, I guess I have a hit on my hands....... Another thing I guess I would like to know is: Are the names of my coaches in the Rivarossi, are they proto types or just made up? There are no numbers, just names. If they are proto types, what are the numbers, if not, what could I number them or just leave them be? |-| Jason Ross Bham Sub-Div G.G./Bess., AL
Karl--It's a large set of photocopied "journal" sheets approx. 11" x 17" with grids something like a baseball score sheet. I call it a "journal" because I had the pages punched and I put them in a large bookkeeping type binder. Each car has a line and there are ten cars on a page and each car has an entry as to car type (Diner, coach etc.), builder, re-numbering if any, and on a very few, entries regarding repairs or modifications are noted. All the entries are hand written and inconsistent and very hard to read. There are certain entries that pertain to the depreciation (A percentage figure). I bought it at the old Frisco Museum or from Alan Schmidt at a train show (Don't rember which). They were sold by the museum the same way as they did the diagram book pages, just a big roll of sheets with a rubber band around them. I've tried to figure a way to scan or photo copy the sheets, but the original entries were faint and and the copies are extra faint. The large size is very awkward. The museum must have had them copied at blueprint shop. The sheets don't appear to have a "date" as such, but evidently it was kept up to date unil the end of passenger service. Tom
Jason--I'm an N scale modeler, and I'm not familiar what the Rivarossi HO cars are named?? I believe the Rivarossi HO and N cars are a completely different group of cars except for the Santa Fe style diner (Both N and HO). As I remember, the Rivarossi HO scale coach has "Gothic" arched window transoms and doesn't look very "Frisco-ish." The Branchline HO paired window coach is a better match for a Frisco car. It looks like the SLSF 770-775 group of cars. I do think the Rivarossi HO RPO-baggage car could be remodeled for a Frisco "look." Tom Edit: Jason, the only Frisco heavyweight cars that have names, but no numbers are: Enid, Ft. Smith, Joplin, Okmulgee and Wichita plus business cars Saint Louis, Oklahoma, Springfield etc. and the KC-Florida Special diners. Those cars didn't even have the small "SL-SF" reporting mark. The numbered cars all had small "SL-SF" reporting marks beneath the numbers.
TO RE POST MY QUESTION. "MY QUESTION AFTER ALL IS IN MY TITLE.......FRISCO STEAM PASSENGER COACHES 1940-52 VIA AMORY MS TO ALL POINTS SOUTH..(GOT NUMBERS )....WHAT COLORS, AND WHAT EXPRESS CARS WHERE USED...ETC.... PLUS WHERE TO FIND THEM IN "HO"? " (IS WANTING TO GET MY STEAM SIDE GOING MORE.) JASON ROSS MAGIC CITY RR LAYOUT BHAM SUB-DIV
The Frisco had about 100 various baggage/express cars. 60 foot, 70 foot, monitor roof, turtleback roof, some with messenger facilities (Toilet, lights, drinking water). Nearly all were Pullman green with imitation gold lettering, most had medium gray roofs, some roofs weathered to a darker gray, some were black. A handfull were painted red and silver with shadowline stripes to match the streamline Meteor. There aren't many (Hardly any) HO models that pass for Frisco cars without drastic kit-bashing. Walthers has a monitor roof HO baggage car, a converted troop sleeper express car and an express refrigerator car that could pass for Frisco cars. There are some pictures of Frisco baggage cars that have been posted on this chat board at various times. You'll have to do some searching/surfing yourself to find them. Start in the passenger car section. Click passenger cars, then click heavyweight cars and explore the posts for pictures. Tom
Jason - If I recall correctly, some of the old Frisco Museum "All Aboard" issues had a feature that would include specific Frisco passenger trains, specific legs (e.g. Amory to Birmingham) and would include motive power and consist information. Mike Condren's Frisco site has most of these old issues digitized. For the aspiring modeler, Ken McElreath wrote a superb article in the March, 1980 Newsletter (Newsletter #25)) on modeling Frisco passenger cars. He's also posted color photos of many of those models on this site. Hope this helps. Best Regards,
Yardmaster Chris--Are you referring to "All Aboard" #80 or FMIG NL #80? Also, I think the links to those publications should be more prominently displayed, say on the Frisco-Dot-Org masthead title page. Thanks, Tom
Need to put alot of the fmig and all aboard stuff in the Meteor News Letter with updates. How about it Richard? Here is the FMIG NL 25 enjoy Jason Ross MCDRR
I already do that to a small extent, send me the material you want me to use, and I will see what I can do. However, I am always looking for NEW material!
