Springfield Subdivision, Springfield Yard, Wilow Springs Subdiviison - layout Planning - 1970's

Discussion in 'Freight Operations' started by rghicks, Sep 16, 2007.

  1. rghicks

    rghicks Member

    Hi

    I am in the process of designing a track plan for my new layout.

    I want to set the layout in 1978. I am in the process of gathering information of that year and era in order to help me set up staging & passing tracks etc. I am wanting to model the line from Springfield to Thayer and the line from Springfield to Monett with Springfield being in the middle.

    The St. Louis and Kansas City lines will be represented with off-line staging as will Tennessee Yard and Cherokee yard. I know that the Frisco Operated several "HOT" trains most notable the QLA, CTB, and BTX. I have managed to obtain some information on those trains but I also know that they operated the No 33 out of St. Louis. It ran to Cherokee but I don't know when it left, when it arrived at Springfield and proceeded to Monett.

    I'm sure there are some other trains from that time frame that I am needing help with but I don't know what they are at the moment. I have been searching everywhere trying to come up with ETT's from 1978 with schedules of trains in them. The latest ETT's that I have been able to come up with are from 1976. They help and I may have to change years but I really don't want to.

    If anyone knows where I can obtain this information or point me in the right direction I would really appreciate it.

    Thanks,

    Greg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2023
  2. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Greg,

    I'll have to look when I get home, but I think I have some old ETTs from this era that might have some of the info you are pursuing.

    Most of my stuff is River Division specific, however, but I'm thinking I have something on the symbol trains you've mentioned. Perhaps others will come along with info in the meantime.

    We'll be eager to hear updates on the research and to see details as the track plan comes along!

    Best Regards,

    Chris Abernathy
    Columbia, MO (but temporarily in Las Vegas, NV for another few days)
    Modeling the Frisco's River Division in HO-Scale c. 1943
     
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  3. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    I suspect that you have ETT 3A, Feb 1, 1976.

    This ETT was superseded by ETT 4, April 22, 1979. I believe that ETT number 4 was the last one issued by the Frisco before being acquired by the Barely Nuth'n'. The Springfield Subdivision and the Willow Springs Subdivision from the Number 4 ETT are shown below. I've also included a couple of pages from a September 1978 sales brochure, which might be helpful.

    Max speed between SY and Monett was 55 mph for all trains except for Nos 32, 33, and QLA, which were allowed 60 mph.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2023
  4. rghicks

    rghicks Member

    Karl,

    Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

    This is the kind of information I have been searching for. I've been searching on e-bay for months and months. I've even been down to Missouri State University (MSU), I still call it Southwest Missouri State University (SMSU). library, the Greene County Library, and I've even tried Kalmbach's Library.

    I was beginning to think that I was going to have to wing it. I hate to keep begging but if you have anything else from that era I would greatly appreciate it. I have been slowly trying to come up with information and filing it in a big box and sifting through it and planning what I can represent and not represent on my layout.

    I am wanting to make this an operations point to point layout but there is so much stuff and I can't fit it all into the space that I have available. I've only got a 19' x 26' room. I have more wants than space.

    Thanks again, I really appreciate it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2023
  5. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks for sharing, Karl...great info!

    Greg I did dig out River Division ETT #4 from 4/22/1979. It includes the Northern Division, Memphis Sub between Thayer and Tennessee Yard. It also included a portion of the River Division trains running between Turrell, AR and Tennessee Yard. Consequently, it does include CTB, QLA and BTX.

    My apologies for the very poor scans. My scanner has seemed to develop a mind of its own. I'll try to troubleshoot and get better ones, if not the entire TT.

    Best Regards,
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. w3hodoug (Doug Hughes RIP 03/24/2021)

    w3hodoug (Doug Hughes RIP 03/24/2021) 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Greg, bravo. You are doing your homework for an exciting layout design. You'll need a LOT of staging. Springfield and that line to Thayer are/were busy places.

    MMRs Ron Williams, Rick McClelland, and Charlie Dischinger have all done a lot of homework for you by concentrating on Springfield Yard and activities there. It's pretty much era independent, since some of those trains ran, with only minor time changes, for probably 75 years. Put as many ETTs together as you can find and just check one train, like 131. You'll find it was around after the BN merger.

    Of course, you need the January 1981 issue of TRAINS with that excellent write up by Dan Overby, Pat Hiatte, and Steve Squibb about the activites at SY on 03-08-80, just two years after your era. Copies are available from Kalmbach. It covers pp 22-31, 57-58, & 60 if you order less than the entire issue.

    ETT No 44, 9/1/1963 and No 45 8/9/1964 list 24 different train arrivals in Springfield; however, four are passenger trains downtown, rather than through the North Yard.

    Charlie Dischinger shared a lot of his research for Ron's design with the FMIG back in 1993. Ron has since built the thing in Springfield and is having operating sessions. The neat thing about Charlie's material is that it including blocking assignments for each train. Also track assignments in SY. The bulk of the material appears on pp. 10-24 of FMIG LINES issue 109.

    Scans are attached.
     

    Attached Files:

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  7. w3hodoug (Doug Hughes RIP 03/24/2021)

    w3hodoug (Doug Hughes RIP 03/24/2021) 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2023
  8. rghicks

    rghicks Member

    Chris & Doug,

    I want to thank you guys so much for the valuable information you have provided me with.

    Thank you for for sharing and helping me with my dream

    Thanks,

    Greg
     
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  9. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Karl,

    I found one thing interesting about your timetable - W. S. Jct. still shows.

    I had thought this was where the old south passenger main connected into the newer 50s-era line from Teed southward along US 65. But, I thought the passenger main was abandoned in the 70s?

    Thanks in advance for pardoning my Springfield ignorance.
     
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  10. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    You're right about where it was located. From US 65 S, you can still see both right of ways coming together.

    Incidentally, the last BNSF timetable I've seen from 2004, lists W. S. Jct. as a station between Teed and Rogersville at MP 206.2. All that exists there is a pair of searchlight signals, well they were still searchlight signals the last time I was home.

    I'm not sure if the signals were converted to act as intermediate signals when the junction was removed, or if they are still CTC controlled. W. S. Jct. is also listed as the point where mainline crews change radio frequencies.

    Paul
     
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  11. rghicks

    rghicks Member

    Just where are W. S. Jct. and Teed?

    I'm in Springfield at least twice a week and I have to come right down 65 Hwy, I live in Buffalo, so I could make a quick detour and check this out. I could take some pictures and if someone could walk me through it, post them on here for people to look at. But I'm going to need something more specific than a mile post marker. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

    I also have something else to ask. I want to include the Zenith factory on my layout. I was wondering what kind of cars they would be receiving and shipping? I'm going to need something to put on my waybills and I would like for it to be as accurate as possible. Also does anyone know how often it was switched?

    Thanks,

    Greg
     
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  12. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Teed is the junction on the east side of town between the line to St. Louis and the line to Memphis. It's between Kearny and Division Streets and is fairly accessible via roadways. You can see it from US 65, but it's more clearly visible from Packer RD, which connects Kearny and Division Streets.

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=...93.235302&spn=0.007551,0.014591&t=k&z=16&om=1

    W. S. Jct. is located south of Cherry St. The junction is more or less where US 65 crosses the mainline to Memphis.

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=...93.229058&spn=0.007554,0.014591&t=k&z=16&om=1

    The links above are to Google Maps pages which show the two locations.

    Paul
     
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  13. rghicks

    rghicks Member

    Paul,

    Thanks.

    I'll see if I can get by there and get a shot or two of those areas.

    Thanks,

    Greg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2023
  14. rghicks

    rghicks Member

    These are some pictures that I took today at Teed.

    This is where the Frisco rerouted the line that went to Memphis in the 60's.

    These pictures are looking east and west.
     
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