Fort Smith, AR, Ft. Smith, Arthur Subdivisions, MP 415.4

Discussion in 'Depots A-F' started by pegnel, Nov 25, 2002.

  1. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

    Sanborn maps - no dates, I assume around 1940-50? :)

    These maps shows industries around Ft. Smith.
     

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  2. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

    Van Buren, AR - 1909 Sanborn Maps :)

    The order is as follows - 3 -2- 4-7-10-8
     

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  3. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Wow! Speechless!

    Thanks to these map groups, I now have much data to sift through and interpret.

    It appears addendums were attached to earlier maps resulting in some "gotcha's" to watch out for in regards to attempting to remain as accurate as practical for 1908/1909!

    Do you by any chance have a detailed 1908 Sanborn showing SF Junction, MP 417.1, just south of Ft. Smith proper?

    I have unearthed confusing information there and would like to see how Sanborn mapped it in 1908/1909.

    Also, a 1908/1909 Sanborn of the Iron Mountain and Southern (IM&S)/SLSF crossing and interchange at Van Buren?

    I cannot thank you enough for your assistance.

    Andre Ming
     
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  4. john

    john FRISCO.org Supporter

    Here is the overview map of Van Buren, AR for 1909.

    The Iron Mountain and Southern/Frisco junction looks about the same on the 1904 map.

    I did not see any detailed views of this area in my copy of either map.

    These both still show the junction with the Iron Mountain which was missing on some later maps.
     

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  5. john

    john FRISCO.org Supporter

    A map that might be of interest is this section of an undated upper Sebastian County map.

    This map shows the Ft. Smith Streetcar loop and other features which date it as later than the better known 1903 plat.

    Notice that at this date the Frisco yard had still not been annexed into Fort Smith.
     

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  6. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Thanks John for the additional input and maps.

    I spent about an hour tonight at my hobby desk studying the Sanborn and other maps provided in this thread. I have quite a task ahead of me interpreting all this and then trying to incorporate what I can into a V-scale virtual world!

    The map of Van Buren creates a quandary. The IM&S/SLSF crossing/junction does not correlate with photograph evidence I have from very near that era. See the attached photograph.

    However, over the years I have learned that maps can contain inaccuracies, railroads in particular. In such cases I go with photograph evidence if it exists. If no photograph exists from the era, as is the case 90% of the time, then a map is one of the few remaining ways we can touch base with what the world was like "back then".

    Map conflict is one of the reasons I was hoping for a Sanborn of the junction to see if Sanborn correlates with the photograph.

    However, all data and input is important for you can find all sorts of gems strewn about in them waiting for the finding!

    Thanks again!

    Andre Ming
     

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  7. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

    Fort Smith, AR depot. :)

    Photographs dated 2009.
     

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  8. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

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  9. mark

    mark Staff Member Staff Member

    Please see the following link for a trackside view of the Ft. Smith, AR depot.

    http://www.depotmaps.com/Images/DepotAR/FtSmithAR.jpg

    The depot's agent / operator bay faces west. Since this was a division point originating station for trains, the depot did not have train order signals near the operator's bay. Railroad west is to the right.

    The depot address is approximately 100 Garrison Avenue. The former Missouri Pacific Railroad (MP) depot once stood across the tracks from the Frisco depot.

    Hope this helps.

    Thanks!

    Mark
     
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  10. FriscoCharlie

    FriscoCharlie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

  11. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Sad. The place looks lonely, like it is waiting for a section of The Meteor to come around the bend.

    Ken
     
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  12. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    The view down the parking lot past the steel barrels looks surprisingly good.

    It was not until I caught the peeling paint and tattered awnings in the other views that it was obvious the place had seen better days.

    What were the dates on the posted slides?

    Is someone caring for the old station currently?

    George
     
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  13. Oldguy

    Oldguy Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Photographs are dated July 1989.
     
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  14. tomd6 (Tom Duggan RIP 2/11/2018)

    tomd6 (Tom Duggan RIP 2/11/2018) Passed Away February 11, 2018

    The Frisco depot/ Central Division headquarters was purchased by the adjacent Fort Smith Historic Site some years ago.

    The depot had extensive interior alterations over the years including a Mexican Restaurant, nursing home office, etc.. There is a room upstairs whose glass door still has the original Frisco coonskin logo.

    The depot opened in 1903 and in June 1912 the Frisco moved its passenger operations to the stub-end Fort Smith Union Station depot shared with the Kansas City Southern (KCS).

    The Frisco depot again hosted the surviving daily passenger train starting in June 1948. That service ended in September 1965.

    The National Park Service, current owner of the depot, is operating with a tightened budget and it is uncertain when anything will be done.

    The depot will be open during two days of the National Railway Historical Society (NRHS) Annual Convention in June 2014.
     
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  15. john

    john FRISCO.org Supporter

    My understanding is that some consideration has been given to the idea of restoring the depot to circa 1915 appearance and then possibly using it as a railroad museum.

    This is based on a recent conversation with some of the staff at the National Historical Site in Fort Smith, AR.

    I have no idea how serious the proposal is, but do know that there is no possibility of this happening in the immediate future.

    John
     
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  16. tulsamackman

    tulsamackman Member

    I am a Ft. Smith native originally. I now live in Tulsa, OK.

    Picture number 5 says that it is a Frisco depot. This picture is actually of the joint Kansas City Southern (KCS) and Frisco Ft. Smith Union Station depot.

    The KCS did not come into Ft. Smith by the late 1940s-1960s. You bought your ticket at the depot in Ft. Smith and then they transported you by stretch limo to Sallisaw, OK where you boarded the train and vice/versa. At least that was the way it was done until I left Ft. Smith in 1966. The old terminal was turned into the offices for Oklahoma Natural Gas during that time.

    As for the Frisco depot, when I was a Cub Scout we would ride the train from Van Buren, AR to Ft. Smith, AR as an outing. I think it cost like a quarter and took about 30 minutes since it went north from Van Buren up through "Greenwood Junction" and then to Ft. Smith. The distance of the trip by automobile was only about 10 miles but much longer by train.

    Very fond memories from this.
     
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  17. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Here are pictures I took in June 2014.
     

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  18. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    Thanks Keith for posting your photographs.

    Can anyone direct me to the other threads that have photographs of the Ft Smith, AR depot?

    I need to reference them for the model I am building.

    Joe
     
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  19. SteveM

    SteveM Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Ray,

    Could we get a clarification that you were riding on the Missouri Pacific?

    Somewhere there is a description of this, with the passenger train then using the Frisco bridge to get back on the MP main going west.

    Thus ran over several miles of track twice.
     
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  20. Turky44

    Turky44 Member

    I am investigating and learning of the railroad past of Fort Smith, AR.

    I live here, I just want to learn of the railroad history.

    Any pictures or maps will be helpful. (y)
     
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