Coke Ovens

Discussion in 'Structures' started by William Jackson, Nov 8, 2013.

  1. William Jackson

    William Jackson Bill Jackson

    I just got some coke ovens off ebay and am trying to remember where it was that I seen some of them. I am thinking maybe Quapaw or somewhere in the Ft Scott to Miami area. I worked in that area quite a bit. Does anyone know anything about coke ovens on SLSF? I know we used to see coke in the bottom of gondola's at the welding plant.
    Any History? Charcoal? Thoughts?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2013
  2. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Within the 9 state territory served by the Frisco, metallurgical grade coal deposits are found in Oklahoma and Arkansas. The following counties had deposits of coal suitable for coking: Okmulgee Cnty, Coal Cnty, Pittsburg Cnty, Atoka Cnty, Latimer Cnty, and Le Fore Cnty Oklahoma and Sebastian Cnty, Crawford Cnty, Franklin Cnty, Logan Cnty, Scott Cnty, Johnson Cnty, Pope Cnty and Yell Cnty Arkansas.

    I have a text at work the describes the coal industry in the Ouachita's; I'll check on Monday for further information.

    I believe that the territory served by the Salem Br was a large producer of charcoal.
     
  3. William Jackson

    William Jackson Bill Jackson

    Thanks Karl, I will be looking forward if you have other information. My interest is what I observed, in the early 70's. The mortar was white from heat and the dome area had major damage due to cave in. The old spur was still there, but had trees growing up in the track and through one of the old ovens. I want to say it was brick or cut stone maybe and most of the black was worn off. There was a small shack, mostly caved in. I am thinking maybe on the Pitcher line. They sent me down that line one time with a dozer, clearing brush. The line was so overgrown that, the vegetation and trees was a tunnel cut only by the passage of a local engine. Spiders would blow across, making their webs, and the Engine would be covered with webs and spiders. I know that sounds like a stretch, but it is not. That was a fun time, with a dozer, kinda like going through the wilderness. I worked their several months.
    Bill Jackson
     
  4. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Bill,
    I wonder if what you saw could have been lime kilns?
     
  5. William Jackson

    William Jackson Bill Jackson

    Karl, I would have not known the difference. I did remember they were smaller than the ones you see on the internet sites. Pretty sure there was only about 3 or 4 still standing. The opening or entrance was not as big either. It was a very neat place though, I wondered around quite some time. The foreman took off and you know how that is.
    The Pitcher line was among the neatest, it was like going into the past. I really liked to go on the lines that had little or no maintenance. Like, I took up part of the line at Wister. Worked on the Clinton sub, I was thinking your dad was down their at one time. I laid steel, their. I never will forget that, some of the men on the Steel Gang would not go in to town, Cordell, because they remembered a guy got hung, for going in there once upon a time. Supposedly he was a rail gang member. They signed their check, with a X and I cached it and returned the money. I also ran to the store for them. You know the guy's, I'm sure you heard the stories. Some of those guys had worked on the Steel Gang all their lives and really did not know how old they were. The line at Mountain View, I worked on the tie gang their. I really hated when those lines went away.
    Thanks for your input and help
    Bill Jackson
     
  6. I wonder if what you saw might have been kilns for making bricks or other clay products. There were plenty of those in Frisco territory.
     
  7. William Jackson

    William Jackson Bill Jackson

    Their is the possibility of it being Brick. I do think it was around the Pitcher or Quapaw area though.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  8. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Bill,

    I have been looking trhough several sources, and I believe that it is possible that coke ovens existed in SE Kansas and NE Oklahoma. To be sure, the center of coal mining and coking activity occurred in the Henrietta and Howe areas of Oklahoma. The Oklahoma Gelogical Survey notes that by 1908 "the Oklahoma coke industry was defunct." The American Institute of Chemical Engineers offers a similar comment, "Kansas, Missouri, and Oklahoma have had poor success in the production of coke and the total output from theses states is very small. With regard to SE Kansas, I found one reference on a genealogy site that referes to coke ovens:

    "By 1870, the K. C., Ft. Scott, and Gulf Railroad reached Columbus, Kansas, in Cherokee County. Eight miles south, along the rail line, there was a small general store in the area of the smelter and coke ovens. "This was about a half mile up from the track from the present site of Scammon," wrote Spice.


    So, it is possible that early attempts were made to produce coke in SE Kansas and NE Oklahoma. Given the quality of the coal, I believe that the fledgling coke industry in this region never amounted to anything of significance, and it did not last into the 20th century.
     
  9. William Jackson

    William Jackson Bill Jackson

    Karl, I looked through several web pages about Scammon, KS, after your comment and worked through the area around 1974 maybe. Its been too long to remember where I was at. I did have Howe on my territory as Roadmaster with KCS. Course that is more recent and I recall going into and walking the Howe mine site. They was just using that as storage when I was there. The pits was there but not much structure. I will continue to look, and do remember the walls about head high. There was an old building, mainly collapsed. Thanks for the work that you have done.
    Bill Jackson
     
  10. mvtelegrapher

    mvtelegrapher Member

    Bill,

    I wonder if you were working on the old branch to Weir, KS which served a brick plant. This spur was off the Parsons Sub and was from the station of Sinclair to Weir and was just like you described. The end of the branch was the Acme Brick plant. As for coke ovens on the Frisco, don't think there were any around Pitcher, OK as all of that area was dedicated to lead and zinc mining. There were coke ovens in south east Kansas at several places including a town called Cokedale which was on the Missouri Pacific and the Katy. In fact some of the coke ovens still exist at Cokedale. I don't recall a location on the Frisco in SEK with coke ovens but that does not mean they didn't exist, i just haven't come across that yet. I do know there were several lead and zinc smelters on the Frisco in SEK including a couple in Pittsburg. They can look similar to coke ovens so that maybe what you saw.

    John Chambers
     
  11. William Jackson

    William Jackson Bill Jackson

    John, thanks for your input. I just said Coke Ovens, I really do not know what they were used for. I worked in 1971 on the Tie Gang in Cherokee, as a matter of fact, their used to be only one bar there at that time serving 3-2 which was a big deal. I was 18 at the time, it had a long wood bar and the guy used so sling the cold mug down the railing. Big Stuff!
    I have been to Weir, and remember hearing of the branch but alas, some of that time, the memory is gone. I did fish the strip mines up in the area. Was good at the time. That area is just full of history. I used to go to a place in Pittsburg called the Pitt or the Basement, it was quite a place. From 1970 to 1980 I was all over the Frisco. Right up until I was transferred to Denver as Roadmaster in 84 I was a traveling man. I filled a lot of Bridges south of Pittsburg. The one I remember most was Pleasanton, Ks. I worked their for about a month, filling and leveling the bottom. We installed 3 each 6 Ft. whistles and the weekend that followed 5 inch rain, wrapping the pipe all around the pilings. They decided not to fill the bridge.
    Several was filled more toward Miami, Ok. Doc Hall was the Roadmaster, i was trying to remember the B&B Foreman, I can see him now, little short man, with a big bark.
    If you have a little time, please relate a little about the Weir branch.
    Bill Jackson
     
  12. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Coke is made by heating coal (other raw materials are possible) to a high temperature in the absence of oxygen such that the coal does not burn, but instead has its volatiles cooked off as a gas, which is flared or used as a fuel to help heat the coal. It is used as a source of fixed carbon for metallurgical manufacturing (iron, steel) or for chemical manufacturing (elemental phosphorus, carbon electrodes, etc.). It could indeed have been made in "beehive" furnaces like the ones I think you are talking about, though that would be a batch process, as was usually the case in the early years. Today it is a continuous process - we operated one in Wyoming. Still do.

    Ken
     
  13. William Jackson

    William Jackson Bill Jackson

    Ken thanks for the summary of the process of making coke. I think the scene Karl related about Scammon is close to what I remember. Who knows where it was, not me, but I will make a area on my layout for it, as I remember.
    Here is the start.
    Thanks for all who contributed.
     

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  14. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    Those are good-looking "beehives" for whatever use they may find (coke, bricks, charcoal...).

    Totally off topic (unless you also model the 3.2 bar in Cherokee), could the bartender make the mug hook and stop right in front of you wherever you may have stood? In a past life, I knew a guy who could do that (at least that's what I remember :) ).

    George
     
  15. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    George - We had a good "mug slider" guy down at Rameys outside of Rolla during my time at MSM, too. Don't recall him ever being good enough to hook it right in front of you so the mug handle is in the right position though! That sounds neat. Plus, it would be a real challenge with left-handers like yours truly!

    Ken
     
  16. William Jackson

    William Jackson Bill Jackson

    I was pretty impressed that the mug landed in front of me. I always went a little further away each day I went in, which was every day. I am thinking it was only a quarter and I was mostly looking at the frost. We was putting in about a thousand ties a day at that time. The cutoff was about eight hundred, anything over that was total exhaustion. Hot, Kansas, Creosote and diesel fuel so a frosty mug was indeed the high of the day. Cherokee was about as dead a place as you could get at that time 1971, everything was played out. Nothing but cinder fills and hot.
    Bill Jackson
     
  17. William Jackson

    William Jackson Bill Jackson

    I have finally built two Blairline kits, to represent this area I found while working a dozer pushing brush.
    The area is not complete, the store is real similar to the actual building. I lowered the coke ovens quite a bit, as the real ones at that site was not the Giant beehive type. As I progress, I will post more photo's.
     

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  18. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Thats some great modeling William!!
    That store looks straight like it was well built. Those coke oven turned out really good too, thats a nice scene you got going there for sure.
     
  19. Jim James

    Jim James Staff Member Staff Member

    I really like that storefront and the roofing. Is the roofing material sandpaper?
     
  20. William Jackson

    William Jackson Bill Jackson

    Another in progress photo. The dozer, a survivor of many layouts was rebuilt and some parts was added from two different kits.
    Jim, the Blairline kits come with roll roofing. Its a matter of what a person likes.
    I applied, N gage ballast. 50/50 yellow glue, sprinkle on and dump it off. I like it, I have tried sand paper also.
    I like the Campbell's corrgated metal also. The Ballast is "Arizona Rock"
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 6, 2015

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