Bowser U25B Frisco #828 DCC w/Tsunami sound

Discussion in 'DCC' started by geep07, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. geep07

    geep07 Member

    The enclosed instructions indicate that a program booster is required to program addresses to this loco. Currently I am running on address #3 for awhile to break the loco in. Has anyone have any suggestions on this matter? This is my first Tsunami sound decoder. I have other sound loco's that I have programmed address to without problems, why is a booster required? I am using CVP DCC system w/wireless throttles.
     
  2. renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013)

    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013) Passed away March 8, 2013

    I get around the problem by programming on the main, and therefore do not need the programming track booster.
    Richard
     
  3. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    John:

    I think that I can weigh in here with a simple answer. Both QSI (Revolution) and Soundtraxx (Tsunami) decoders come equipped with a capacitor that serves the purpose of keeping the decoder from for lack of a better term, "restarting", when the locomotive crosses a dirty place on the track or goes through a frog that is not powered, thus it is dubbed the term "stay alive" capacitor. The downside of this is that it causes the decoder to require an additional boost or "surge" of initial current to make it able to read or change things like programming prompts, thus the need for a PTB-100.
    Having said that, I am curious since you are using EasyDCC how long you have had your system and if you are using the relatively new Zonemaster Booster or Boosters. They have a unique feature that surges an additional 30 amp momentary boost that helps compensate some for the effect of the capacitor but not enough for programming purposes. I just finished a new control stand for my EasyDCC system incorporating a PTB-100 and would be more than happy to help you also. Here are some pictures. I might add that I use a layout intergrated programming track, thus the reason for the toggle switch.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2011
  4. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    Richard has a different system than EasyDCC but I think I can change some CV's on the main, but not all of them. The additional of a PTB-100 is good idea probably for most systems to assure that you can change everything that you want. You may try OPS Mode programming on the main to see if you can change the address or I may try the next time I go downstairs today as I am curious also.
     
  5. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    John:

    I did go downstairs and before attempting to try and program the primary address on the main I consulted the EasyDCC manual and on page 63 (I have the latest manual) it strongly recommends in two different places not to change the locomotive decoder addresses using the main line (Ops Mode) programming method. I usually follow instructions because I feel that there must be a reason but at the same time am curious as to why. I don't know about you, but I have found that after a short learning curve, the EasyDCC's manual to be quite easy for me to comprehend and very comprehensive as it was in this case. Having said that, I looked in the index and found my answer on page 172 where it states " For a long address, it must be first decomposed into the MS bits and the LS bits and written into the two appropriate decoder CV's. And the MS bits have a messy offset value that must be comprehended. Use the programming track and let the command station take care of all the calculations for you." Maybe that's one of the reasons they call it EasyDCC although other systems may have their architecture written to do the same thing. Anyway, bottom line, I took their advice and decided not to attempt it.

    Since you have taken the leap and purchased a top quality Tsunami equipped locomotive, I would suggest going ahead and purchasing a PTB-100 which you can get for $50. You are probably going to want to play with other CV's such as setting the horn to the Leslie 5 chime. You will also need to invest in a separate power supply and I got mine from Litchfield Station for about $10. You can choose to cut and split the wires from the power supply that goes to your command station but you will need to purchase a terminal strip so you may as well get the separate power supply. The PTB-100 comes shrink wrapped in a clear protective cover so you don't need to go to the extent that I did unless you want to. If you need further assistance just let me know.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2011
  6. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    In Ops Mode (Mainline) Programming on Easy DCC it is possible to set CVs on Tsunami Decoders. The main issue with Ops Mode Programming is:
    1) In order to program a locomotive address, the locomotive you want to set an address should be the only one on the mainline for safety purposes. (you could possibly reset the addresses of all the other locos on the main).
    2) You must make absolutely certain that when you do Ops Mode Programming, that you get the loco address correct before changing CVs.

    On Easy DCC systems the command key sequence for changing CVs is:

    Ops Prgm
    (locomotive address for locomotive you want to set a CV in)
    ENT
    CV
    (CV number to be changed)
    ENT
    1 (this sets system to put in a value)
    (value that you want in the CV)
    ENT
    ESC



    Caveate: The Easy DCC manual indicates that some decoders (especially with more than 2 digit addresses) may not respond to programming attempts on the main.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2011
  7. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter


    Ah! Therein lies the answer for you; NCE systems provide sufficient power on the programming track to handle the programming of sound decoders including the Tsunamis.
     
  8. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    John and All:

    John, Keith's instruction sequence is correct, but you will need some further information before you can try to program the long address. This information applies to users of all systems that aren't allowing programming the long address or possibly other CV's on the programmming track without the use of PTB-100 or similar device. I found this out after my initial post when my curiosity got the best of me and did some further research to find out how to do it and how difficult it actually was. You will need to go to the Soundtraxx website and open the Diesel Technical Reference Manual. The URL is: http://www.soundtraxx.com/manuals/Tsunami Diesel Technical Reference.pdf and then scroll down to pages 14 and 15 which address CV's 17 and 18 and to a related extent CV29. After reading the steps necessary I made the decision not to try this but do understand your desire to program your locomotive to the correct one, so you may want to try it and that is why I am making this post. If you or anyone else does decide to give it a try, please report back your results.

    Note: As far as Keith's caveate about some decoders not responding to main track programming on the EasyDCC system the statement goes on to say that when this occurred they had subsequent conversations with the decoder manufacturer involved which revealed that the source of trouble was with the decoder itself, not the EasyDCC system or for that matter probably any other system. I might add that the current manual was written at the time of the last system upgrade which was in 2006 before the Tsunami was even released.

    Hope this helps more than confuses!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2011
  9. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    In "layman's" terms, how do you DCC guys manage mulitiple-unit diesels? Does each and every unit have to be fully equipped? One of my favorite engine consists is a six-unit lashup of Life-Like FA-FB's. The reason I've stayed away from DCC, there just doesn't seem to be any cost justification in equipping all those units. And I have a four-unit set of Kato F-3's and I have many Life-Like and Kato multiple E-unit lashups in several road names. I can see an advantage with a switch engine, but six or so road engines??

    Thanks, Tom
     
  10. HWB

    HWB FRISCO.org Supporter

    Tom.
    In "laymans" terms I used a computer to set all of my locomotives up to run together. This was a very tedious and time consuming effort.
    I used the JMRI DecoderPro along with my Digitrax DCC system. If you don't want to invest the time and money into that sort of endevor then I would stick with DC operation if you like to run multiple unit lash up's especially if your'e happy with DC operation
     
  11. bob_wintle

    bob_wintle Member Frisco.org Supporter

    If you want to run Multi Unit lashups using DCC you will absolutely want a decoder in every locomotive. Trying to use a DC loco using address 00 DCC will cause you more headaches than you would ever want. Do not ask how I know. (It was a time consuming process getting everything back to normal) If you decide to switch to DCC start off slow and build your fleet up a little at a time.
     
  12. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Tom, first let's quantify what you're talking about. Figure about $20 per locomotive for decoders. Each locomotive has to have one in order to be controlled.

    Second, in order to make them run well together, we set them up so their speeds at a given throttle position are matched. This is what Howard is talking about. We only do this for better operation; someone ends up pulling/shoving otherwise - it can't be done with engines running on DC, you just live with it. Ideally, this is something you do one time; you match all the locomotives so they will play well together.

    For someone with a large number of units to convert it represents a sizeable investment, but it opens the door to much more realistic operation (including sound).

    Once the units are speed matched, you can either set all the units that will be in a consist to the same address (usually most people set the address to the highest loco number in the consist) or you can create a logical consist made up of the locomotives with their own addresses and assign that consist a two-digit unique number. This logical consist can be created in the DCC system or can be programmed into the locomotive decoders.

    The computer software (free) that Howard describes just makes the whole process a lot easier, however depending on the DCC system, it may require at least one more piece of equipment (an interface and/or connecting cables).
     
  13. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Converting my locomotive fleet to DCC is beyond my reach. Seems it would be much better for someone just starting out in the hobby...

    Tom
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2011
  14. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Tom, I can tell you that it is easier one at a time. Before March, 2009 I had only 1 Frisco locomotive and only a few others. At last count, within the past two years my stable has grown to 43 and they all have had decoders installed as they were purchased. The only problem now is that the I have been hit by the Tsunami, so I will slowly pick an choose certain locomotives to get the upgrade.
     
  15. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    To All:

    This is a follow-up thread to the one that I posted earlier about how to use Op-Mode programming to change the primary address on a Tsunami decoder. I did go down to the railroad and followed the prompt sequence with less than desirable results. I will be needing to call Soundtraxx tomorrow and hopefully that can help me reset it. John, as far as your particular situation is concerned, I would suggest finding a friend in your area that has a DCC system and letting them help you program your locomotive address. Then consider getting a PTB-100 so you can do it yourself and be able to sleep well the next night!
     
  16. geep07

    geep07 Member

    Thanks Bob, finding a Easy DCC user around here is like finding a needle in a haystack (Ballwin, MO area) in regards to your question I have a dbl. deck layout, I have 2 5amp boosters from CVP one for each deck, isolated of course. Would the new zone booster be of any significance?

    You are correct in regards to the CVP manual, I did read it with intensively. But why would you want to programm an address on the main, once you give that loco an address it stays with it indefinitely, this makes practical sense. Is the power source on the main different than the programming track? I do all my CV's on the main using the OPS mode without any difficulty.

    I guess if I want more Soundtraxx Tsunami decoders in the future I will have to get the PTB booster!

    Once again thank you for all your assistance.
     
  17. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    John:

    Here are some answers to your questions.


    "Would the new zone booster be of any significance?"



    Tough question, but probably not unless you end up with a significant number of sound equipped locomotives. The 5 amp boosters are quite powerful. If you do acquire enough sound equipped locomotives that you notice shut downs or slowdowns you could always add a 7 amp Zonemaster and another power district. An example would be if you have an engine terminal with several sound equipped locos idling at one time you could isolate that yard or area. I would think that all of these scenerios would become evident during operating sessions. Bottom line, the Zonemaster Booster will NOT replace the need to get a PTB-100. I know that from first hand experience.



    "You are correct in regards to the CVP manual, I did read it with intensively. But why would you want to programm an address on the main, once you give that loco an address it stays with it indefinitely, this makes practical sense."


    As the manual states doing it on the main requires additional programming knowledge evidently including changing a bit in CV29 and after my experience in trying to experiment with trying it, the manual gives grerat advice in NOT attempting it.


    "Is the power source on the main different than the programming track? I do all my CV's on the main using the OPS mode without any difficulty."


    Yes it is. It is actually the wall wart or small power source that came with your system. The two wires that you attach to the screw terminals on the side of your command station go directly to your programming track. The silver toggle switch on my control stand is a four pole double throw one which selects either power fom the booster or power from the wall wart, but not both at the same time as it would damage the command station. As I stated in the earlier message, sound decoders are a different animal than non-sound ones due partially to the capicator and will not allow some Ops Mode programming.



    "I guess if I want more Soundtraxx Tsunami decoders in the future I will have to get the PTB booster!"


    In the grand scheme of things a small investment, but a great idea!



    "Once again thank you for all your assistance."


    You're more than welcome. As with anything else, there is a learning curve and we can learn together! Although this conversation has focused on one system, EasyDCC, hopefully those with other systems can take away some knowledge in regards to the use of programming track boosters, etc.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2011

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