Birth of a 4300

Discussion in '4300 Class Mountains' started by frisco1522, Dec 29, 2018.

  1. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    From Frisco company photos are the birth of 4300 at the West Shops.
    I'm trying to figure out how to arrange the photos in the proper order but no luck, so you'll have to use your imagination.
    The boiler is shown prior to the smokebox being attached and the courses not riveted together or staybolts installed. It is newly fabricated from nickle steel and will have the steam dome and base from 2-10-2 No. 57 put on and riveted down. The dome has the Baldwin builder's number stamped on the front side and by doing this, the Frisco will have tax advantages by claiming it as the "old" boiler from the 57.
    When the 4400s came along, they actually used the Spot engine boilers.
    4300 Boiler SY Shopr.jpg 4300 Tr Table SYr.jpg 4300 Cab.jpg 4300 RF SYr.jpg 4300 New SY 1936r.jpg 4300 LBSr.jpg 4300 SY Shopr.jpg
  2. Thanks for sharing thoseDon.
  3. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    Don, We appreciate you posting the photos, those are very interesting. In one there are several people around 4300. It would be great if we could do that now, maybe 1522 in St. Louis or 4500 in Tulsa. There are other locomotives out there that would work also.

    I like seeing photos of steam locomotives as they are being built. Have seen some with rows and rows of locomotives, all in various stages of completion. Don't know where I saw the photos, guess I'll have to Google.

  4. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Thanks a ton, Don. Those are great photos.

  5. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    My favorite class of Frisco steam due to the aesthetics and Frisco-originated creativity in effectively building these from scratch.

    Might be for another thread but the photo on the transfer table: when these were built, I had assumed it was all completed in the steam erecting hall at West Shops. But this photo seems to point to the locomotive being moved to another building? Would be curious to have someone with more knowledge of the West Shops to chime in.

    Thanks, Don, for a nice New Year's present.
    Ozarktraveler likes this.
  6. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Supporter

    A question for Don, Karl, whoever ........
    Is it possible the Frisco 4300's were the greatest performing SLSF steam locomotives per unit of its weight? Seems to me they sure had a great reputation, at least when they were new.

    ps - Back from our Holiday cruise on Oceania's M/S Riviera. Wow - it was terrific!
  7. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter


    Attached is an article that I posted previously. In short, it's all about how one defines his terms, and how the steam locomotive is used, i.e., fit for purpose. If you're talking about the modern Frisco steam freight locomotive operating at the top of the its HP curve, total HP vs Total Engine weight, then I would rank them in the following order:
    1. 4500
    2. 4300
    3. 4200, 63" drivers
    4. 4200, 64" drivers
    5. 4400

    When a locomotive is operated for extended periods below the speeds at which their maximum horsepower is produced, then there is a waste of the locomotive investment dollar. Remember, officially for freight trains, the Frisco was a 50 mph railroad. A 4500 running up Dixon Hill at 15 mph is not producing the HP it was designed to produce.

    Attached Files:

  8. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    Nice write up Karl. I think to an extent, Frisco tailored the size of the freight trains to keep the speed up which in a way helped the engines to be closer to their "G" spot as I used to call it on 1522. Helpers made the ruling grades more livable too. There is so very much that we don't know today on how they operated "then".
    Dad used to tell a story of having to detour over the Missouri Pacific with a troop train, long, all heavyweights with a 4300. The MP pilot kept bloviating about their 5300s being much better engines than the 4300 that Dad said "Here, sit down and see what a REAL engine can do" The pilot came out on the throttle and was listening and watching. Pretty soon, he started looking sheepish and started easing off on her and finally got up and said "Damn, these are something else".
    I really wish steam had stuck around another five years on the Frisco. I would have been more mobile than a 26" balloon tired bike and could have gotten out and appreciated them more.
  9. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    This is a terrific thread. Being born in 1954, I pretty much missed steam. It's great being able to learn about operations, usage, etc.


    Paul Moore
    Ozarktraveler likes this.
  10. Phred

    Phred Member

    What are the units used in your evaluation?
  11. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    HP/unit weight
  12. Eren Reddick

    Eren Reddick Member

    Lawrence "Snipe" Reddick ( they misspelled his name) is my great grandfather.

    Attached Files:

  13. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Really neat photo and article caption...thanks for sharing, Eren. And excellent hat tastes on the part of your great-grandfather.
  14. Eren Reddick

    Eren Reddick Member

    Thanks! I think this is Lawrence Reddick in the middle of the group photo outside.

    Attached Files:

    Ozarktraveler and yardmaster like this.
  15. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    So I have always enjoyed the story of how the Frisco achieved significant sales tax savings by being able to "reuse" the old spot series locomotives' boilers. By reuse, they used the portion of the steam dome that included a stamped boiler number. Looking at pictures: is the outlined portion below the portion that was transplanted from the 2-10-2s? Or, was it literally just the steam dome from its rivet line up?

    Best Regards,

    Joe Lovett and Ozarktraveler like this.

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