Question for the HO scale guys out there, what ballast do you use? I can guess the woodland scenics part but, Fine or medium grade? And what colors do you blend together? I know a while back I saw that Sirfoldalot had a way of doing it with coffee grinds.
Ethan, I use the fine (N-scale) W.S. ballast, but it's frankly still too big. I might look for something smaller. Based on the granite type ballast I saw in and around Cape Girardeau and Chaffee as a kid, a buff (light tan) color has always looked right for my eyes on the mainline, with fine cinders on yard track and some sidings. I've always read that the type of ballast used in a particiular locale often came down to what was most readily available at the best value. If it's plausible, you can probably use whatever you wish. I'm not sure I could justify the C&NW "pink granite" type of ballast in SW Missouri. Best Regards,
Many fine modelers use a ballast made by a company called Smith & Sons. It comes in several grades and colors way down to a #50 which he says is N scale and it is really fine. He does not have a website, but his contact # has been posted on several Yahoo Groups. Until recently his products were sold through Scenic Express www.scenicexpress.com but because of delivery issues (he is in his 80's according to them) they are now producing a replacement line of their own. I bought the limestone in both the #50 and #40 grades. Fellow Frisco modelers Rick McClellan and Bob Wintle have both seen the product and seemed quite impressed. The color is light grey, but they may have it in darker colors. It has yet to show up on their website so you will need to call them directly for more information. Bob Hoover FriscoFriend
Ethan: I use different colors of the Woodland Scenics ballast. I also use different sizes. The one I use the most is the fine light gray color. The WS ballast is not the best looking but it is less expensive than other brands and much more readily available. The Ballast Bob mentioned is very impressive. If I were doing a diorama or a contest entry I would consider it. It is just not readily available enough to do an entire layout (in my opinion) not to mention the extra cost. Bob Wintle
Prototype Ballast It is my understanding that the Frisco used limestone ballast in Missouri, Kansas and Arkansas since it was available and the least expensive alternative. I believe I have heard several people say over the years that the Frisco used limestone from the Griesemer Quarry in Springfield and maybe other limestone producers as well. Mark Davidson, former SLSF employee, has said on several occasions that the Frisco called it "chat," instead of ballast, rock, etc. That would make our company service rock cars "chat cars." During the early 1980s, the BN started using pink granite on the Northern Division. It was quite a change from the limestone previously used but it is more durable than limestone and I am sure the BN had plenty of on line suppliers if not their own quarry. Model Ballast There are several producers of ballast in the model industry including Woodland Scenics, Arizona Rock, Scenic Express, Highball and others. In my opinion, real rock works the best so that excludes Woodland Scenics who uses crushed walnut shells for their product. If that is true, that explains why it floats away when I put glue on it. Real rock will float but not nearly as bad as the non-rock Woodland Scenics material. I have used Arizona Rock with success and will try some Scenic Express as well. I suggest using N scale ballast as it looks better in HO than the "HO" ballast. Hope this helps some but the best thing you can do is get some of each and give them all a try. Ship IT on the Frisco! Rick
Rick's mention of the use of "chat" is quite interesting. "Chat" is really a name created to call the left-over material from the processing of lead and zinc in the area of Southeast Kansas and Northeast Oklahoma, more specifically around the towns of Picher, OK and Treece, KS. When the lead and zinc was extracted, the "chat" was actually residue and piled into giant hills all over the area. I remember going through Picher as a child and seeing some local children climing to the top of them and sliding down on burlap bags. Road construction companies discovered that "chat" was useful as a road covering material when spread out and then soaked with oil. This was mainly down on county and secondary roads in the 50' and 60's. Then came the realization that this stuff was radioactive waste and was contaminating the people of both towns. Picher actually became one of the top 10 environmental waste areas in the U.S. at one time. The Federal Government came in and began cleaning up the mess and actually bought out all of the people in the town. Treece is now going through the same process. Why am I telling this story. Because this area and the Eagle Picher Mining Co. in nearby Galena, KS was a major producer in Frisco territory. And of course, that was where some of the 2-10-0's spent the last days of their service life. Bob Hoover FriscoFriend
So far, for my Newburg enginehouse and yard area, I've been using cinder ballast made from cinders that I get from our local street department garage. They put cinders on the streets here in the winter. I get a 5 gallon bucket of them and strain them through a tea strainer and they end up just right. The city gets them from the Labadie power plant of AmerenUE. The last batch seems to have some coal dust in them. At any rate, they work just fine. I don't know what I will use on the mainline yet. I have a bunch of white limestone ballast from one of the hobby companys that I will probably use and dirty it up a bit.
Bob is correct on the use of the chat from the tri-state lead and zinc fields. The product is the waste created by the crushing of the rock to extract the lead and zinc ore. It came in several different sizes with the smallest being a fine chat. The fine chat is what virtually all of the railroads that served this mining area used as ballast from before 1900 into the 1960's and 70's. If you dig down in the ballast on any of the rail lines in the four state region you will probably find chat mixed in with the current ballast. It was used because it was very cheap, basically it was given away. If you supplied the cars for loading you could have the chat for a small charge. Usually the shipping was more expensive than the chat. It can still be used but has to be encapsulated in concrete or asphalt. Bingham trucking from Kansas City is still loading and shipping from a large pile near Treece, Kansas and Heckart Paving of Pittsburg is also using it. The material is not radioactive, it contains lead which becomes airborne particulates when crushed. Three of us this last Saturday went down to Picher and explored the area looking for remnants of the NEO and the Miami Mineral Belt both of which the Frisco purchased. The town of Picher has been purchased by the US Government and is in the process of having all of the residents relocated and the buildings torn down. This will also happen to the towns of Treece, Cardin, Hockerville and Zincville until there are no persons living within the superfund site. It is an eerie feeling driving through these near ghost towns. For more information on the history of this area and to see lots of pictures of it during the mining boom visit the following websites: http://schehrer2.homestead.com/ http://www.cardinkids.com/ John Chambers
The problem with using chat as ballast can been seen here in Parsons. There are areas near the old Diesel shop and up around the Grain elevator on the north side of town that still have this as ballast. Dir seems to clog it up very easily and over time the ties seem to disappear into the ground. I wish I was able to model this as I think the way the old dead line at the Diesel shop would look really cool in model form. I also remember that when I lived in Wichita in the mid 1960's we had a chat roof on our house in the Westlink addition. Bob Wintle
Here's a Bill Phillips' photo from the late 70s at Rockview Jct. just north of Chaffee. This roughly approximates the color of ballast on the St. Louis Subdivision that I remember: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/slsf/slsf420abp.jpg Granted, even using the tan W.S. ballast, I think it would benefit from a light overspray of Polly-S Dust or similar weathering gunk. The granite ballast on the Eastern Division would make sense. I think the line to Viburnum (Iron County) came off the Eastern Division via Salem? If one's ever driven through Iron County, the exposed granite rock seems to also have been a popular building material for dwellings. Best Regards,
I have found that a mix of woodland scenic medium course ballast in gray,tan, and light rust will give the most realistic looking Frisco ballast. Mix all three colors equally in a shaker and spread evenly along the sides of the track and in between the ties. I use 50/50 mix of Elmer's white glue and water to hold the ballast down. I spray the ballast after I apply the glue with a light mist of 70% alcohol which helps spread the glue evenly so it soaks into the ballast. I let the whole thing dry a least a day or so before I run trains on it. |-| FriscoGeorge
George, Try Mixing the glue and alcohol together - half and half - then you can eliminate the extra step. I better go and make some more "coffee grounds ballast". I figured out that if I place the spent grounds in a pot with lots of water and bring it to a boil, let it settle, drain off the excess water, add an equal volume of plain bleach, let it ferment until it stops bubbling, then rinse well; it dries to a very nice "speckled" color.
That's for all the info. So from what I've gathered here is my plan: Mostly fine light gray ballast with some medium course buff, and cinders mixed in from WS. I also will have a turntable, but no round house, so took make it realistic I will be using kitty liter on it. Why you ask? Because working in the shop with dad, when he has an oil spill he covered it with kitty litter and it soaks up the oil. So I'll use that around the turn table to make it look like a a service shop.
Something else that I thought about trying was Krylon stone texture spray paint in Charcoal Gray and Sand color. This paint sprays on like regular paint but dries with little black stone flecks in it that looks very realistically like ballast. I was thinking about using this on the cork type roadbed and just spray the entire roadbed with a coat of this stuff and lay the track on top. That way there will be no loose particles to work their way into switches and get sucked up inside the locomotives. It should look similar to the Kato Unitrack when it dries.
I've only ballasted one layout (my last one). At that time, I bought Woodland Scenics light gray ballast, but when I spread it, it appeared to be a shade of tan. I wasn't exactly thrilled. In preparation for ballasting my new layout, I've been watching several youtube videos and reading a lot about DIY ballast materials lately, including the "poor man's ballast" thread by Sirfoldalot. Some people use manufactured ballast, while others use real rocks, dirt, sand, and, yes, even "expended coffee grounds." I've read that Woodland Scenics ballast is made from crushed walnut shells. (Sounds like I may need to start saving my pecan shells and chop them in food processor.) In another thread, I was advised not to use kitty litter or even sifted limestone. I'm not opposed to manufactured ballast, but since I enjoy DIY projects anyway, I'm open to suggested for DIY ballast. Any suggestions would be appreciated. - Brandon
If you are in a place with clean rivers. "SW Missouri". A old time rail modeler, used the real fine material from the edges of rivers. Let it dry, spread out on a news paper, sift it and then wash it again. It looks real nice, but lots of work. Six bucks works also for the "Frisco" Arizona brand ballast. N Gage
Brandon, whatever you do, I would highly recommend avoiding any material that is less dense than water; it will float when you try to glue it down. Therefore, any nut shells are out of the question.
