AT&N: Modern-Era Layout

Brandon,

I based this design on the assumption that your layout as drawn below was 8' x 5'-3'. That is the basis from my design. The dimensions of your RR room would give me options, but here is a concept for your consideration.

With the exception of the car ferry lead, and the Frisco connection, and the Mobile Industry track, all turnouts are number 6’s. All curves with the exception of the Aliceville industry track are 20” radius. All parallel tracks are on two inch centers.

The layout contains two design elements that I hope will capture the AT&N. Aliceville features a crossing with the Frisco’s Pensacola Line and a connecting track for interchanging cars with the parent road. In Mobile, the Blakely Island car float offers a place to stage cars. The one track yard could be expanded to include more tracks, and especially so if they're stub-ended.

The layout will allow some continuous running for your steam and SD-40-2, and it will provide some switching opportunities for your RS-1’s or 44-tonner.

 

I really like to see these plans, they all look very nice. I wanted a continuous route and didn't want the scene to be unrealistic or just my thought with too many tracks. I do now believe I should have put more trackage in, its kinda of a trade, small spaces just are difficult to plan, although you get the chance to finish the layout also. SO ! Rule number one!

 

It does not matter a great deal whether your eventual layout is point-to-point or includes a loop (best if it not obvious) to provide the option for continuous running. Really, you need to be thinking in terms of a railroad and not a "track plan," as it is vital that your trains actually have some work to do between their point of origin and their eventual destination. Otherwise you will end up with what amounts to the loop of track under the Christmas tree: interesting while you are building it and for a few minutes after it is up and running, but in the end, it will offer no challenges and quickly lead to boredom that will lead you to tear it up before it is ever completed. Think in terms of what your railroad (or any railroad, for that matter) actually does for a living and build that activity into your plan. The suggested layout that Keith posted reflects what I am talking about. Unless it is part of a tourist railroad, a 1:1 railroad yard does not exist simply to store trains until it is time to take them out and run them around for a while before bring them back to where they started. It exists to sort incoming cars so that they can be delivered to their consignees and to gather cars to send them either back to their point of origin (like a mine or mill) or to wherever they are going next, either further down the line or to an interchange point. Make this part of your plan and you will find the end product much more interesting.

GS

 

Wow, Karl! That's a great AT&N track plan in post #84. Just when I thought I might abandon the whole AT&N idea, you've given me a reason to strongly reconsider. I appreciate you taking time to use my space dimensions and giving me a loop.

To recap for everyone else, the space is 96" x 64". A "surround" layout seems to be the only way to have a decent loop and provide the biggest bang for the buck so to speak... and I'm still young enough (for now) to get down on all fours, crawl underneath a 36" clearance, and still pull myself back up... albeit it isn't nearly as easy as it would have been once upon a time.

In the meantime, after many attempts, I've finally developed a "cleaner looking," "double loop with sidings" plan. (I'm not sure why it took me so long to figure it out.) I agree that circles/ovals are somewhat boring, but this isn't just 3 parallel ovals. Thanks to some #8 turnouts, it's actually 2 parallel ovals (outer main and inner main) that share a 3rd (middle) track to be used for sidings. The middle track could be could used as a 3rd main for running 3 trains simultaneously. However, running 3 trains simultaniously isn't the real reason for this design. What I plan to do is use insulators to "divide" each track into blocks. Each end of all 3 tracks would be a block (3 tracks - 6 blocks).
Now, imagine 4 trains - 1 on the outer track, 1 on the inner track, and 1 in each of the 2 sidings (middle track ends). I could run 4 different trains (passenger, unit, mixed freight, local switching, etc) - 2 at a time. The siding for the inner track is on the right end of the middle track, and the siding for the outer track is on the left end of the middle track. All curves are 24" radius. All turnouts are #8's. I have 4 power packs: 1 for the outer, 1 for the inner, and 2 more - 1 for each block of the middle track. A few toggle switches later and it would work.


Like I said, just when I thought I had something and was narrowing it down, Karl threw that awesome AT&N plan out there for me to have to think about. It's very tempting since it has a running loop! My scratch built "Sulligent Cotton Oil Co." building might look a little out of place after being moved 60 miles to the south in Aliceville or 380+ miles to the south in Mobile yard or on Blakely Island, but with the 40 hours of blood (X-acto knives hurt), sweat, and tears I have in it. It's going to be on my layout somewhere, regardless of the theme.

Another idea I had on my little brain is for 2 or more tracks. One loop would run around the perimeter of the layout - ground level on one end with a grade up to 2 overpasses on the other end. A completely ground-level track (or 2) would cross under a bridge and run on the back side of the elevated track momentarily before re-emerging from underneath a 2nd bridge on the elevated track.

Those are just some ideas, anyway. Live, learn, and have fun counting rivets, right? Well, maybe not so much rivet counting. - Brandon.

 

Well, I liked Karl's idea so much that I took it and sort of made it my own, so to speak. I included part of the wye at Reform, the Frisco interchange at Aliceville, The yard at Mobile with some space for industries. However, the Sulligent Cotton Oil Co. building is going is going to look a little weird in Mobile but like I said earlier, there's no way I'm not displaying it after all of the work I put into it. Oh, I almost forgot, I've got the Cochrane bridge back up over the Tombigbee River again just south of Aliceville. Let's pray no barges come by and stike the pivot pillar again. I'm really liking this idea. Please continue to share your thoughts, ideas, and suggestions. Of course, I'll be using as much flex track as possible for whatever I do. I'm all about eliminating joints where possible. Each section of flex track eliminates 3 joints. Less joints = less chances for derailments. But you all already know that. To be continued... - Brandon.

 

I would try to make the interchange track at the diamond longer. The idea is you want this to be a "universal industry" so that you have an excuse to leave a few cars tree to exchange between the two roads. To do tat you need at least a couple of car lengths wrth of track.

In Karl's version of the plan, you will notice tat he left the switch off the frisco track, you just need to create the illusion of the connection here, you don't actually need to have the connection modeled.

Paul

 

What Paul, Keith and Greg say with regard to operation are very true. The notion of the Frisco interchange and the car float are to provide “off-layout” traffic sources that don’t use much space and as Paul states, are illusory.

The operation of my design might proceed as follows. The crew for the daily Mobile-Aliceville Turn would report to the service track, where they would find a freshly serviced road switcher (GP-7 or RS-1) and caboose. The first order of business would be to head to the ferry slip to meet the car float from Blakely Island. (After sleeping on the design, I think that I might reduce the number tracks to the ferry slip to just one. The second track could be rerouted a bit and could serve another local industry or it could become an interchange with the L&N). When the car float arrives, our crew would drag the cars from the ferry, and move them to the main line. Once that side of Mobile had been worked, the crew would service the industry and pull cars from that track. The crew would assemble the train, and then they would head to Aliceville. Taking several laps around the layout, would lengthen the run to Aliceville. At Aliceville, the crew would find the Frisco interchange full of cars left by the Frisco local from Amory. These cars would be pulled, and the cars from Mobile would be shoved into the interchange for pick-up by the north bound Frisco local. The turn would then service the local industry, rebuild its train and head back to Mobile. Once at Mobile, the crew would get the cars to the Blakely Island Ferry, service the local industries, and then return the locomotive and caboose back to the service track.

 

How much do you know about the AT&N? (Probably a lot more than me.) Can you figure out the interchanges, locations, and the highway name just by looking at the layout plan? Don't read any further if you want to figure it out on your own.

Can't wait for the answers? OK. Let's start at the north end of the line and work our way south. http://www.reocities.com/lxvrengr/atnmap1.jpg

Top Right: The wye at Reform now interchanging with the Alabama Southern Railroad (formerly the GM&O). Notice the Reform depot in the wye (which is still standing in that spot today). http://www.reocities.com/lxvrengr/ATnN.jpg I'm not going to build a replica but I have a couple of freight houses that are close enough for either one to serve the purpose. The industries on the ABS represent stuff I already have or stuff I may add later.

Top Center: Sorry Carrolton, AL, even though your residents started the Carrolton Shortline RR (now the AT&N), space is limited. On to Aliceville were the AT&N interchanges with the Alabama Gulf Coast Railroad. The AGR now operates that portion of the former Frisco Pensacola sub.

Top Left: Panola/Geiger/Emelle/Boyd, AL. Just a couple of rural industries here. Forrest Products, sand & gravel, etc. I may do something for the hazardous waste landfill at Emelle. That's Emelle's claim to fame. Only in Alabama (I'm from here so I can say that.)

Left Center: York, AL. Interchange with the Alabama Great Southern Railroad (AGS) (a subsidy of Norfolk Southern).

Bottom Left: Ward, AL. I don't know much about Ward, AL other than I've been there on AL 10 between Bulter, AL and my 2000-2004 hometown of Meridian, MS. On the south side of the road, there is a gate across the old road bed... or at least there was the last time I went through there in July 2012.

Bottom Center: Cromwell, AL. Interchange with the M&B (formerly Meridian & Bigbee RR). I bought a Meridian & Bigbee boxcar a while back. I may try to make room for it with the interchange track but if not, it can sit between the highway and the diamond. The M&B shared a joint depot with the AT&N at Cromwell. http://www.msrailroads.com/M&BR.htm There's a couple of good color photos on this page. You can see the AT&N rails.
Everything from Lisman to Saraland, AL got crammed into a space of about 3 inches.

Bottom Right: Mobile Yard/L&N interchange/Blakely Island Ferry Slip.

Right Center: My "Sulligent Cotton Oil Co." building will still be the centerpiece of the layout so I guess that means that Sulligent "magically" relocated between Reform & Mobile now where the AGR "magically" interchanges with the L&N. I hate to tell the AGR & L&N, but the AT&N and the Frisco are about to take trackage rights whether they like it or not. Ha! That brings us back to Reform, AL.

I've spent a lot of time studying the interchanges that would be there today down to whether they were L or R turnouts and where they were in relation to their respective diamonds. Mobile is completely freelanced. I've personally laid eyes on some wye rail still embedded in Reform city street pavement. Yes, I love tracking down old RR beds that much. It's like a treasure hunt for folks like me.

Let me know what you think about the layout plan and the reasoning behind it. Thanks - Brandon

 

Brandon, it's up to you to define the "givens and druthers" for your own railroad. You have attempted to represent an entire railroad in a limited space. Karl has provided an interesting operational scheme that can be different every time, with some cars entering and exiting via the interchange and the ferry. It does suspend some of the actual geopgraphy, but someone operating the trains won't mind.
I'm afraid the spurs on your design will have very limited capacity for cars to work with and no place for a second engine to sit. Plus you will need to run around the loop at least once to represent any distance between "towns." Your design has a lot of scenery area relative to the activity area. I would recommend reducing benchwork width at the duckunder, or finding someone with a good design for a hinged or lift-out section. Otherwise it will be hard to share your work with many folks.
I'm guessing you haven't been to any operating sessions on other's layouts to see what Keith and Karl and others are aiming at.

 

This is good stuff and where my layout is lacking. It looks nice, but their is really no switching on mine. I may need to re-think my layout for operation.

 

Ok. In response to comments about a lack of switching, I think this is IT. It has 2 ovals, one that maximizes trackage, but when you want to run trains in a small space for hours at a time, you have to have a loop of some kind. Yes, I can reach the top of the layout. I've reach across a 4X8 and this is only about a 43" reach to the back.

Yellow X - AT&N/Alabama Southern (formery GM&O) interchange at the wye in Reform.
Gray X - AT&N/AGR (former Frisco/BN/BNSF) interchange at Aliceville.
Purple Arrow - To Mobile
Green X - Cochrane Bridge over the Tombigbee River. I have a plan to make the bridge open to the right. No more crawling on hands and knees on a concrete floor!!!!!!! Whooo Hooooo!!!!!
Red X - Mobile Yard - Going to go back and leave room for the depot. http://frisco.demopolis.ws/ATN.depot.mobile.al.1.htm Not looking to model the depot. Just going to stick a stock depot there... at least for now. By the way, was the yard and depot here on Beauregard St. to the ENE of the GM&O station?

It looks like there's an abandoned yard there. That would explain why I couldn't find the depot. Anyway. Back to the plan...
Blue Arrow - Track to Blakely Island for a ride on the CG Railway's Train Ferry for the voyage to Coatzacoalcos, Veracruz. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CG_Railway
Orange Dots - Former Frisco Pensacola sub (Alabama Gulf Coast Railway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabama_&_Gulf_Coast_Railway) and B'ham sub via BNSF's south Amory wye.
Gray Arrow - to Pensacola, FL
Yellow Arrow - to Columbus & Amory
Blue X - Amory, MS
Black X - Sulligent, AL (couldn't leave out my home town now could I.)
Red Arrows - To Birmingham, AL

Plans
AT&N 11 brings a train from the ferry and pulls out some more cars from the yard.
AT&N 101 makes the delivery to the AGR interchange at Aliceville. Backs up on the other track, then heads up to Reform to pick up empties left on the wye by the ABS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabama_Southern_Railroad.
AT&N 101 turns around on the wye and heads back to pick up a train left by the AGR at Aliceville, then hauls it to Mobile Yard.
The crew hops in AT&N 11 (we're a steamline operation) and takes the train to the TASD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_Railway_Alabama_State_Docks who will load sort it out overnight.
The crew will get home... late as usual... then get up before dawn to do it all over again the next day.

Surely this will get more positive comments. BTW, My big "Sulligent Cotton Oil Co." building is tall enough and long enough to "seperate" the Blakely Island Track from the BNSF B'ham Sub... all behind the S.C.O.C. bulding and some other scenerey/structures. It just worked out that "Pensacola" and Mobile are in the same genral direction on the layout. To the left of the bridge, you are looking "due north." To the right of the bridge, you are of course looking "due south." To be continued...

- Brandon

P.S. - I just realized that I can shrink the length of the little oval and have it be the AGR/BNSF within the large oval (double track around the back). That way both the AGR/BNSF could run loops on the small oval while the AT&N runs loop on the big oval. Why didn't i think of that earlier?

 

It appears to me that you have generated your plan using Atlas (or some other brand of) Snap Track. This is helpful because the dimensions of the various section of track are consistent and are a known quantity. However, as I look at your wye track, I don't think you will be able to use it the way you describe in your write-up because the tail tracks are too short. Sections of tangent (straight) Snap Track are 9" long, or about 1-1/2 40' car lengths. This will not give enough headroom to turn a train unless it is a locomotive running light or you turn one car at a time. No matter how much space you give a model railroader, it is never enough, but you may be trying to fit too much railroad into too little space. That said, this is only one opinion and the railroad belongs to you. Think about this: When you walk into your railroad room, what is it you want to see? If you don't see that, you will not be happy with whatever is there instead.

GS

 

That is real similar to my layout, with a little or lot more room for switching. One thing on the Wye, you could use curved switches and tie the wye into the main on both sides. That is what I did and I really like it. I could use a little more switching on mine. Looks good though.

 

After several days of trying several plans for a total of several hours, if this plan isn't "it," I'm at least getting closer with each attempt. My limited space forced me to compromise the wye at Reform. I tried with 15" radius curves, crossovers... you name it, I tried everything I could think of. I figured I would use the right leg of the wye in the "AT&N loop" instead. The left leg of the wye at Reform can serve an industry there.The idea is a point to point layout within a very small loop. I still need a scenic divide idea between Sulligent and Mobile. Hills/forest would work in Sulligent but not down on the Alabama Gulf Coast. Palm trees would work at Mobile but sadly we have no palm trees here 260 miles inland in Sulligent. Any suggestions are welcomed. From "Reform" south, the AT&N runs into the Frisco mainline coming down from "Amory" (off layout to the top right) at Aliceville, and uses the straight-a-way at the top center as the interchange track. I decided to go ahead and extend the Frisco toward "Pensacola" (also off layout) a bit. That section of track can hold a nice size train for a layout this small. I added a 2nd, non-prototypical, interchange track at Aliceville on the other side of the diamond... simply because I can. That and it makes storing an even longer train possible. Cochrane bridge will "swing open," not on a pivot like the prototype, but at the end. (That's the plan at the moment anyway.) Thanks to all who have replied to this thread so far. I really appreciate it. Keep the ideas coming. - Brandon

 

It is getting better. Your "Frisco to Pensacola" line might make more visual sense if you could drop it down and install a diamond so that it crosses over the main line at left and creates the illusion of continuing off and beyond the edge of the layout. As it is, that line is stub-ended and does not convincingly represent a line that actually goes anywhere. Plus, the diamond would add visual appeal and the opportunity to have a tower to control the routes.

GS