The club layout has a mainline run of approx 200'-250'. I would like to install a DCC system on one of the mainline loops. How many amps will I need for that length and to run up to four loco's?
I think only 2. On my NCE power cab (starter set) it only puts out 2 amps, enough for 4 locos. You might want to consider at least 3, maybe 5 being a large area. Oh and I've been wondering this for a while, If you put 5 powered locos on a 2 amp track, but you only run 3, will it still have the stalling problems?
Another question would be does the length of mainline run matter if it is fed by a buss? I would think 5 amps would be the minimum for a 200'+ run and five loco's
There are a lot of thing to consider when choosing a DCC system. One thing is what type of locos are you going to be running? Are they older Athearn type, Kato ,Atlas? The older Athearn locos are power hogs. Kato and Atlas P2K are not. I would go with a minimum of a 5 amp system if I were you. Bob Wintle
Howdy, I think it is always a good idea to run a large set of bus wires around the layout, connecting track feeds to the bus around the layout. You'll find that without a bus, the farther the locos get from the power source, the more they'll slow down due to power drop. Another reason for the bus is to power turnouts and sidings. Here are the guidelines I've used on my layouts in the past: Bus: 12 AWG house wire - solid or stranded Feeders: 22 AWG - solid Distance between feeders: 9 feet max (I connected them three feet apart on last two layouts) Feed length: keep short as possible, but less than 12 inches Bus connectors: suitcase suitable for wire size (Scotch makes them plus others) or solder. I am sure there are ranges of sizes that are just as good. You might check the NMRA site for standards, too. Best regards, mike
Howard, I fully support the direction provided by Mike. Continuity of the electrical current is critical, especially the transmission of the signal code when using DCC systems. Unfortunately, model rail is not the best conductor over length. This is further complicated by the use of rail joiners (poor electrical connections). A solid solder joint to the bus is the best connection. As a result, each rail should have a feeder from the main bus. Hope this helps. Thanks! Mark
For long runs of busses, it is especially important that ALL connections be soldered to minimize voltage drop. I'm sorry, but in the interest of reliability, 'suitcase' connectors just aren't in your best interest. Additionally, the finer the strands in a given wire size, the greater the current - carrying capability and least voltage drop per foot. (Approximately 80% of the current travels on the surface of a conductor, not through the middle.)
Interesting. So the large diameter wire gives the current more area to travel? I've always heard bigger is better but could not understand why. Is anyone out there a member of a club that has a long run of mainline and DCC control? How is the performance?
I've helped set up and run large N-trak layouts (including one with 115 scale miles of track). Large gauge is required to give a bus run of more than about 60 feet (with the booster in the middle). If you haven't seen it already, you need to look at this website: http://www.wiringfordcc.com and in particular, the section on layouts with long bus runs: http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#c2 Paul
Paul ... Fantastic article. Thanks for the info. Even though I live in California, Until recently joining the forum here ...somehow, I had the impression that DCC was something to do with the Gay Movement. Don't know that this old horse will be able to drink from the trough, but will try - if I ever get off my "duff" and get some track down again.
A local KC GE Medical Tech, Joe Kasper, has given me the following as "givens" for model railroad wiring. 1. For most layouts, a 10 gauge stranded copper wire bus is a basic requirement. On my layout I have some very long runs and used an 8 gauge stranded copper wire bus. This is especially painful due to the high cost of copper these days BUT the results are excellent. Joe sez stranded wire has lower attenuation which means better conductivity over longer distances. 2. Soldered connections are much better than mechanical connections. Mechanical connections (like railjoiners, suitcase connectors, twisted wires, etc will fail over time due to oxidation of the copper and whatever the other metal is -- steel, etc). I will also add that a proper solder joint is a must or it will be no better than a mechanical connection. Each piece of metal to be soldered must be clean and tinned. Heat must be applied to the object(s) being soldered, not the solder itself. When both pieces of metal are hot enough, the solder will melt and join the two items together. 3. Go a big as you can afford for power supplied and boosters. Again, this is painful at first but once the investment is made you will NEVER regret it. I have been on several layouts where it is under powered and when the train crews put a load on the system, everyone experiences delays and poor train performance. If you ever plan on sound, BIG IS ALWAYS BETTER. Really. Soldering Rail Joints A final tip I have learned (the hard way) is to leave small gaps between each piece of rail and DO NOT SOLDER RAIL JOINERS. Seasonal expansion and contraction will move the track in amazing shapes that you never intended and can adversely affect train performance. The only exception to this rule is that I solder the rail joints on (90-270 degree curved) track I place on curves to ensure smooth curves and avoid those nasty kinks. Soldered track in these few places on my layout have never caused any operational or aesthetic issues. Gaps on either side of the soldered curves help with the expansion and contraction. My gaps are the width of a business card so keep one handy for a gap gauge. Hope this helps those looking to wire up a layout. It's really not that hard but it is time consuming. However, the payoff is enormous. Wire IT on the Frisco! Rick
Rick is dead on right about the soldering all rail joints. I subscribed to this old practice and the twenty to thirty dergee change in seasonal temperature has caused some problems on my layout. Metal wheels and heavier cars can withstand a small rail gap with ease.
All good advice, gentlemen. However, I would venture to say that the humidity has more to do with your problems - in that part of the woods - than the temp when it comes to affecting track problems. I used to live in AR, LA, and MO. My basement in Shawnee really sweats at certain times of the year, and the walls were damp feeling. The layout had to absorb a lot of this moisture - which would expand and contract all wood joints. We get 25-35 degree swings in temp most days here - but the humidity level stays in the fairly low numbers all year. BTW, Rick, only reason I am writing to this thread is to ask you where u live in Shawnee? I used to be 10 thousand something w67th st. Very near Dobel's Hardware. (lol)
OK - One more DA (thats Dumb A**) Question from the uninformed. If I procure a DCC equipped loco - will it operate on a non DCC layout?
Yes, But be careful when running a DCC loco on DC power. If you run too much power to it, it could stall and reverse. I'm telling you from experience.
Not all decoder equiped loco's will run on a DC powered layout. If it is not a "dual-mode" type decoder such as those factory installed in Atlas units it will not run. If you know the type of decoder installed we can always find out before you procure it.
