Workshop Wednesday

Steve:

When I tackle the issue in earnest, yes, I will be trying to see if I can discern what's actually going on before I tackle anything. (Such as running without a shell so I can watch the drive components.)

If there's no fore/aft action in the drive/worm shafts... well... that can't be good. If no discernible fore/aft run-out in the worm/drive shafts as it descends, then likely its sloppy tolerances in the truck gears. I'm not going to go to the trouble and expense of finding genuine Athearn trucks to replace all the P2K Blomberg trucks in the P2K engines I have on hand, and I for sure wouldn't attempt Kato replacements. ($$ and mondo work adapting different truck-to-frame mounting systems.) I'll just have to find a way to minimize it and live with it, I reckon. Bottom line: Despite our best intentions, model railroading isn't a perfect science.

 

Hi Mark!

As I replied to Steve's suggestion of the same. The drive axle gears have been replaced on all my P2k equipment within the past couple years. I also bored out the ultra tight fitting sleeves so they aren't such a tight press fit. The split P2K axle sleeves were replaced with Athearn factory parts. I still have some of the Athearn axle sleeves on hand from my retrofitting of the P2K's.

Also, it was my experience that split axle sleeves were highly noticeable at any speed/direction/situation. The lesser offenders would rhythmically click and cog as they moved along, the worst were so bad they would stall the motor.

I can check again, but I seriously doubt the Athearn replacements have already split. (However, stranger things have happened!)

 

Thanks Tom. We still see a lot of those 86s for the Honda plants around here. The sound of them going through the quad diamonds in Marion north of me is amazing. Like a thunderstorm.

 

Andre,
I have had similar and or exact same experience with my P2K Alco FB units. I replaced the axle gears/wheels and it was still doing the same thing. Took it apart, new gears where okay. In my opinion, I think what is occurring is the other/idler gears are not meshing/synchronizing with each other either by alignment or not made correctly. I noticed that they are not aligned center to center. Half the gear is riding of the other gear and there is a lot of excessive slack between the gears which may cause the problem. The replacement idler gears from Athearn are not the correct size. Now what?

John

 

Big Update!

1. First, I finished modifying/detailing my final undec EMD F unit that's destined to become a KC&G unit. As for EMD F's, all that remains is watching for the final three Stewart/Kato undec F's in the correct phases I want. When found/purchased, that will be all the KC&G F's from the roster that I would like to represent. A pic:




2. The Atlas SD26 cab and low hood CAN be made to fit a P2K high hood GP7!



I will have to cut the steps off the P2K short high hood and file/fit to the lo-hood and walkway. I figure that will be a butt load of fiddly-piddly file n' fit work... but when a feller's got the burn to make a Frankenstein engine... well... what can I say? Here's a pic showing the steps that will have to come off the high hood and fitted to the chop job...



Tom/John:

Yes, the P2K gear lash issue is like somebody slapped me in the face with a sack of sh*t! Had I known this beforehand, I likely would have spent the money/time to install Kato drives into my P2K Geep fleet. But, boy oh boy, THAT would have driven the cost-per-engine investment through the roof! Plus, same with time investment needed to modify and adapt the Kato motor/trucks to the P2K frame.

More stuff/pics to share, but all fer now. Supper's callin' my name!

EDIT: Oops! Just noticed I forgot to glue on the MU receptacle on my last F unit!!

 

Nice touch on the chains across the nose door in which the question asked is why did Frisco do this? Was it a safety issue or to keep from entering the cab?

 

Those look great Andre.

 

Thanks Steve.

John:

Have you noticed how hood unit diesels have chains connecting the handrails between units? Same principle. Those chains were there so they could be unhooked from the loop and hooked onto the next unit. With an F unit, going from unit to unit en route was a dangerous proposition. Those chains were a safety feature in the hope that an Engineman going from unit to unit would at least have a chain stretched across the gap to aid in stopping him from falling between units.

BTW John... it's been too long since you've put up some pics of your excellent Frisco layout. Come on... make like a frog and hop to it!

 

The KC&G's CMO is really PO'd. Seems of late there's been a few switching mishaps. None serious... but still indicative of "less than safe" operation by some within Train Service.

Case in point is GP7 #418. Seems the hogger ended up slightly cornering a car in the small yard at the helper town of Ozarka, resulting in a bit of bruising and scraping. Nothing too serious, but enough of an incident for concern, nonetheless. Most serious casualty was a battery box cover that was ripped off and crunched past repair. Also taking some damage was the front corner step guard and a deep scrape on the side of the cab. Most concerning damage was the handrail that tried to turn into a pretzel. That resulted in a safety appliance violation that had to be fixed before the unit could be returned to service.

Fortunately the chaps at Ozarka were able to apply some heat with the acetylene torch and with the help of a sledge and a track bar, they were able to straighten the handrail enough to comply with the safety appliance codes and thus get the unit back into service. However, ol' #418 will carry it's battle scars for how long now? Below are some pics illustrating the results of the incident.

The side damage...


A closer look at the bungled handrail...


However, a struggling line has to do what they've gotta' do... so once patched up good 'enuf... back into service it went. Here's #418 once again ready to do what it's been doing for the Casey for right at 14 years...



Lurch update:

After oooing and ahhhing at my newly arrived pair of P2K GP7's from The Whiz... I was curious to see how they would perform MU'd together.

I'm happy to report that MU'd together, the pair of P2K GP7's can bring a train down Buck Mountain just smooth as a baby's behind. No lurch. Also the same descending Buck Mountain as a light MU consist: Smooth as silk.

I'm very pleased to find that out. In the morning I will tack a train behind #418 to see how it does as a single unit. (Which is where the lurch issue reared its head with P2K GP7 #407. ) I will do likewise with P2K GP7 #427, which I was in the same USPS box as #418.

Oh, and I need to tell you about the malady that #427 was involved in, too. I tell 'ya, railroading the Ozark mountains ain't fer sissies!



All fer now!

 

Tom:

LOL! I'm givin' the crew the same break I've seen good TM's/Super's s give others. (And me!) Sometimes poop happens and metal gets bent. I can't share some of the stories to protect those still out there earning their retirement... but perhaps I'll feel free to "one of these days".

Any effect such as the above I incorporate, I have pictures of the prototype (or first hand experience) to back me up. So, thanks for the "genius" compliment, but I'm just modeling what I've seen or experienced. The scary part is making the first mar on the perfect plastic. From there it gets easier.

All fer now!

 

Railroadin' in the Ozarks can make for some pretty excitin' moments at times. Some of those moments can even be "stain yer Hanes" moments. Case in point:

Things were goin' pretty smooth (for railroading on the Casey's Ozark Sub) in the middle of a cold autumn night as Extra 427 South rumbled past the small dept at Piney and started dropping down the bane of the entire KC&G: Buck Mountain Grade. Buck Mountain Grade is several miles of 2.5%, with stretches at or near 2.9%. (Some swear it hits 3%, but the MOW Big Heads vehemently deny that.) All the Old Heads know this grade well and have a deep respect for Buck Mountain Grade, and the newcomers learn to respect it in a hurry. Things can go bad in a hurry on Buck Mountain, especially if it's self-inflicted and you've pi**ed away your air. You get experience in a hurry taking trains down Buck Mountain.

The lights pierced a hole in the darkness as the hogger, an old head by the name of "Tater" Smith, dropped off the face of the earth onto the side of Buck Mountain and into the blackness of a cold moonless night. Things were going pretty smooth. GP7 #427 had a great set of cab heaters and the cab was toasty warm, Tater had his air set "just so" and was only having to use throttle to ease them through short let ups in the grade as he glided his train down Buck Mountain. Warm cab. Good handling train. Can't get much better than this.

Rounding the curve that plunges the train into Buck Hollow... Tater's heart jumped into his throat.

"HIT THE DECK!" Tater hollered to his nodding Fireman and Head End Brakeman.

Of what Tater could see among the eerie and grotesque shadows, a large tree looked to be laying on the rails! Avoiding big holing... Tater pulled off a deep set of air and ducked below the window for cover, as did the Fireman and the Head End Brakeman. If they went off the rails, it would be better to be crouched and braced, and if they stayed on the rails, at the least, they'd need to stop and check out the damage that this one WAS going to inflict upon the consist that was under Tater's charge.

With a loud "ka-WHUMPH"... followed by a the sound of rustling... Extra 427 plowed right through the tree. The trio of mountain railroaders crouched in the cab of that Geep breathed a huge sigh of relief that the engines stayed on the rails and the air hadn't busted into Emergency. Still rolling, Tater got up, and sat back into the "Hot Seat" of the slowing train only to face darkness: The impact had taken out the head lights. Eventually Extra 427 South ground to a halt near Jack Fork crossing.

"What's wrong Tater?" crackled the radio. It was the hind end as the Brains wanted to know what had happened.

"We got through a tree. Looked to be a big 'un. Got no headlights. I'm fixin' to go out and check the motor's over."

"Gotcha. We'll start walkin' up checking the train. Tell Henpeck (Head End Brakeman) to git out an' start poundin' the chat back to us lookin' things over."

"He's already on his way", came Tater's reply. Tater continued: "I'll be tryin' to raise the 'Spatcher on the horn to let 'em know what's goin' on before I git out an' start seein' what I can do 'bout the head lights."

Henpeck had already grabbed his Star lantern, cinched up against chill of the night air, and had started back into the cold night air to check the train, eventually meet up with Fat Dog and Midge. (The Conductor and Rear Brakeman.)

Fortunately, the headlight housing was intact, not so the beams. Using the small batch of tools Tater carried in his grip, Tater was able to pull the beams out of the rear light, and get the front light up and going again. That would be a huge help, for trying to ease your way the rest of the way off the grade to Ozarka (where the units could be safely swapped around to get a functioning headlight on the point) using nothing but a Star lantern hung on the front handrail would be a mite discomfiting, to say nothing of complicating a crossing. Amazingly, the damage was limited to the headlight, and what looked to be the steam generator stack, which now had a new crease in it, courtesy of the limb that whacked the tar out of it. That must have only been a limb hanging low and the rest of what appeared to be a huge tree trunk across the rails was a result of the strange shadows from the headlight that the branch was playing upon the rails. It happens.

Henpeck returned to the cab, and Fat Dog and Midge made it back to the shack. The train was fine. It would be A-okay to continue.

Tater put the set of power in reverse, and eased out the throttle to about 3 notch. The amp gauge needle went up the dial to about the 12 o'clock position. The units were loading fine. Seeing that all things were good, Tater knocked off the train air, and using the engines to lean against the the train (holding it in place), he recharged his airline. (No way the engine brakes would have held back the tonnage.) It would have been fool hardy indeed to just kick the air off after a deep set and start merrily down the Mountain. You'd regret that decision in hurry just as soon as you started pulling off what's left of your air for the set that was surely coming.

Air up, it was slack off the throttle, into Forward, and start what hoped to be an uneventful trip the rest of the way to Clarskville.

Railroading the mountains can make for some mighty unusual experiences. Pitch in the fact that yer railroading mountains on the Casey... and that makes it even more unpredictable. However, that's the way it is on the Ozark Sub on the KC&G.

The Model...

I modeled P2K GP7 #427 as a steam generator equipped Geep. It's the last unit in the KC&G's GP7 roster. The last three GP7's were ordered with steam generators to cover some of the lesser passenger trains that were still operating in the early 1950s when the Geeps were purchased. The dented steam generator stack idea was gleaned from Frisco GP7 #618, which had such a steam generator stack that obviously had received a thump somewhere along it's travel through life. Here's a composite pic showing the lasting reminder of that fateful night coming down Buck Mountain:



(Also note the handle on the sand hatch took a thump, too.)

I concocted the above scenario to explain the damaged stack on #427 which reflects what I see in my pics of Frisco #618, but also draws from several experiences I had while railroading the Ozark Mountains myself.

I hope you enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed creating it!

All fer now.

 

Andre -- You have the distinct ability to construct a mountain from a molehill!
Well done, my friend!

 

Thanks Sherrel. I really enjoy creative (and anecdotal) writing concerning railroading when I'm in a mood to do so.

As applied to my KC&G, I enjoy creating the back stories for the theme (and its roster and such). Those add depth to me in regards to my theme and help to "bring it alive" for me mentally. As a bonus, my creative writing also helps to keep my actual experiential memories alive and fresh. As frosting, modeling the lasting results of such incidents also jogs my memories when I see the model that reflects same, and thus my memories are retrieved mentally and enjoyed/reflected upon yet again.

So, writing/sharing via creative writing, along with modeling such evidences, are win-win's for me.

This amazing ability of model railroading is part of what makes model railroading such a great hobby. Makes me feel sorry for those that collect bottle caps.