FYI, the PRR T&HS "Keystone" in its current issue (just received today, Volume 40, No. 3) has what looks to be a very nice article on pages 44-61 covering "PRR Through Passenger Service to the Southwest", featuring The Texas Special and The Meteor, along with MP's Sunshine Special and Texas Eagle. There are some nice looking Pullman Company car drawings for the TS and the Eagle. The article is by Joel Rosenbaum. The PRR H&TS is really impressive. The publications they put out ("Keystone" in print, "The Keystone Modeler" on-line) are totally first rate. I wish we could have gotten organized by now to do something similar for SLSF. Ken |-|
Doug - If you recall, I tried that once before. We had a Frisco RR Historical Society as a non-profit organization fully incorporated in the state of Missouri, and had the publication ("The Meteor") proposed and the format scoped out, with some impressive, well known authors agreeable to prepare some great articles. Net result after about nine months ..... disaster, turf squabbles with FMIG, and, sadly, bruised friendships. I'm not anxious to go down that road again, even after 20 years have passed. The Frisco needs a "we" group of about a dozen fanatics, who also know a lot about the railroad, to get a proper HS going. The days when one fellow could do a heroic job, as you did with the original FMIG (which I dearly miss!), are long gone I'm afraid. I also miss The Frisco Museum - that was a quasi HS and had an interesting publication - "The All Aboard". I enjoyed writing my column ("Frisco Roster Tales") for it. Another possibility would be to get a dedicated high quality magazine started, similar to "Remember the Rock" for the Rock Island. I talked to the publisher (Andover) about considering one dedicated to the Frisco. They agreed the Frisco would make an excellent topic, but were very concerned the small size of the RR and its regional fan base would not provide adequate demand for the publication. An alternative to the print magazine would be to do a web magazine, but somebody (a HS) needs to sponsor it. Wonderful examples out there right now are available for the PRR, the B&O and, just started, ACL/Seaboard/SCL. As models for a HS - the PRR T&HS has several dozen such fanatics in their group, and their work product is outstanding. Talk about detail!!! Another excellent example is the Santa Fe RR H&MS. Terrific. Ken |-| ps - You can tell I'm a RR historical society junkie - I'm a member of roughly 20. That's why I never get much work done - too much to read!
I am collecting information, photos and operational practices for a 100 page plus issue on the 'Texas Special' for a future TRRA H&TS publication. The format will be similar to the issues published in the past on the 'Southwestern Limited' and 'Missouri Pacific Pullmans'. Right now I am looking for a photo of the Frisco coach-buffet car 'Glendale', done in the red and silver shadowline, and PRR Pullmans 'Tioga Rapids', 'Swatara Rapids', and 'Cascade Range' - also all painted in the red and shadowline. A 154 page issue on the GM&O's 'Midnight Special' and 'Gulf Coast Rebel' should be out before Christmas. Larry Thomas TRRA Historical Society
That is impressive, Ken! You must manage your time better than I. Perhaps it's like the old Woody Allen line: "I just took a course in speed reading and read War and Peace in 20 minutes. It's about Russia." On a more relevant note, I'm not sure where cost comes into play with publishing a shiny, aesthetically-pleasing magazine. Curiosity makes me wonder if a university press or state historical society (such as the ones a few blocks to my southwest) would assist on a cost effective basis? I was too much of a babe when the old FMIG newsletter was hard copy. By the time the Frisco Museum published a magazine, too much of my meager post-college allocations went toward spirits. I'm at a point in my life where - as much as I LOVE online news/info - the kinesthetic side of me likes to hold and thumb through my Newsweek. However, I think I'm putting the business car before the locomotive, if I can mix my metaphors.
Fellers, As a newspaper guy, I can tell you putting out anything that (a) looks good, (b) reads well, and (c) sells, takes a unit train of work. Printing costs are astronomical and you have to find a computer graphics type who doesn't have serious personal problems. You also have to find an editor with the patience of Job and the diplomatic skills of Talleyrand. Web-based publishing is a little cheaper but you still face production problems. So, it sounds great. Be sure you look before you step into the abyss. Jeff Huston
As a follow-up to my first posting (above) regarding the PRR T&HS "Keystone" having a nice article in the current issue (vol 40, #3) about the PRR Pullman Company 14-4's that were assigned to the Frisco "Meteor" and the Frisco/Katy "Texas Special" ............ The current issue of the B&O RR HS "The Sentinel" (vol 29, #4) has a similar, well done article about the B&O Class S-2 sleepers, also P-S 14-4's, that totaled eight in number, Pullman plan 4153B, r/n's 7010-7017. Several of these B&O cars were also assigned to the "Meteor" and to the "Texas Special". One difference from the PRR cars was that the B&O did not allow the Frisco or the Katy to have their cars painted in the Frisco/Katy red/crimson/silver paint scheme, so these cars ran for all their period of service on these trains in standard B&O colors. For much of their time in Frisco/Katy service, the PRR cars appeared in red/crimson/silver. One B&O car that I know was often in SLSF/MKT service was 7015, named "Cacapon". Many of you are familiar with the color photo of the "Texas Special" leaving Dallas in August, 1951 behind SLSF E8 2008. In the train consist you can easily see one of the B&O sleepers (I'm told it was "Cacapon") along with a PRR car in PRR colors. This pic is on page 40 of "Frisco in Color" by Marre/Sommers, and is on the dust jacket as well. I've also seen the same pic published elsewhere but I can't recall the references. There is a good pic of "Cacapon", plus a pic of a model of it, in the B&O "Sentinel" article. The PRR and B&O societies work well with each other, so I'm not surprised to see these two articles published at about the same time on the same general topic. These two groups are each publishing terrific on-line newsletters - "Keystone Modeler" (PRR) and "B&O Modeler". Take a look at them! Ken Meteor910
To bring this thread up to date, are there still copies of the TRRA HS Texas Special issue left? This publication deserves an award in its own right! It belongs in every Frisco and Katy home library and also in the ones of the Pennsy and B&O fans too for that matter. It is a stand alone issue as it is and personally I fail to see how such a high quality top notch publication could have been offered at such an economical price taking in considerations of the costs of printing today. A Special Thanks to all who contributed to this excellent publication on a very special passenger train, gone but not forgotten! Joe Toth
I was at the TRRA Historical Society annual meeting a week or so ago and there were still copies for sale. GS
I am already editing The Meteor, when are you guys going to write articles for it? My thanks to the few of you that have done so. Richard
Yes, but not many copies of the "TS" issue are left. At the meeting, I asked Larry if he was making any progress on his planned "Meteor" issue. The answer, unfortunately, was "no". Much of the package of info and pics Larry needs are tied up in red tape issues. Too bad. The world needs to see more of Frisco #'s 9 and 10. Ken
Any member who hasn't obtained a copy of the TRRA HS Texas Special issue is sure missing a sweet treet! These folks REALLY went above and beyond the call of duty to produce a publication that has been missing in every Frisco and Katy home library! That said, is there any "remote" possiblity that we will see a Morning Sun book covering Frisco passenger service? More and more books are being released on passenger service specific to railroads even including Burlington Northern and Penn Central! Surely Frisco deserves one too! My other "pet" passenger train is the Kansas City-Florida Special! Very little has been published about it. THANKS AGAIN TRRA HS for the Texas Speical issue....can't get enough of it!!!! Joe Toth
Joe - Please pass your Texas Special comments along to Larry Thomas via the TRRA HS site. He works very hard on those annual issues, and would appreciate hearing your feedback. Many others are involved as well. Ken
For the benefit of those wishing to see a Frisco passenger book from MSB, please be aware that during the color slide era, Frisco's best passenger trains ran mostly at night, so the opportunities to take photos were limited to areas around their terminals. Also, there just weren't that many trains, and all were gone three years before Amtrak took over passenger operations. I tried to cram as many passenger images as I could into Frisco in Color, Vol. 2 because I am a passenger "guy," but when the smoke cleared, there just weren't as many as I would have liked (partly because quite a few people were unwilling to lend material from their collections). GS
Shuckins! I have quite a few vintage color slides and can understand the fear that they might get lost or shredded by shipping them anywhere. I only have one Frisco slide with a 44 tonner and a wooden caboose and loaned it to Frisco Mike and he put it up on the site. I spent several sleepless nights when he wrote me that he had sent it back. Would you believe it went to German customs to clear? I have had other mailings sent to them too. I wonder if Homeland Security has me on their "Most Wanted" list? On the other hand I just received a book from Amazon that came through A-OK! If I had more Frisco slides you can bet your work boots I would be more than happy to send them Registered Mail for use and at no charge for the enjoyment of all Frisco Folks! My slides taken in the Dallas area in the 70s were left with a friend in Big D when I made the move overseas in December '76. I am still waiting for their safe return but the guy has passed away. My biggest loss was a shot of GP35s with the roof mount airtanks on a southbound freight in Irving on a sunny cold January Texas morning. Black Beauties no less! Back to subject. I wonder if J. Parker Lamb shot color? He took a lot of beautiful night photos. Mabie we need a coffee table size book on the Frisco in black & white? Several books have featured Phil Hastings black & white photos and they are just stunning! Sadly, I don't guess he made it to Frisco country? He surely included the Frisco too. Parker's book "Katy Diesels to the Gulf" is an example what a Frisco edition might look like. A message to the TRRA HS folks will get Done! Joe Toth
Why not just either scan or have them scanned at hi-res and put them all on a CD instead of mailing them?
Joe--Why don't YOU write the Frisco passenger book? Put some of your ideas to work, Instead of just "musing" about it?? TAG 1014
When I was teaching history I used to tell my students, "Any time you ask me a question that begins with 'Why didn't they just,' get ready for a long and complicated answer." In this instance, since the original question related to Morning Sun Books, the answer is that MSB will accept the occasional scan but in general prefers to do its own scans as a means of controlling the quality. Their method involves de-mounting the slide and giving it a "bath" to eliminate old fingerprints, mold (you would be surprised at how much of this accumulates over time), dust, etc. Some folks understandably object to this, regarding the original mount as something akin to the original box if you are a Lionel collector. However, as a general observation, if you compare the overall reproduction quality of a Morning Sun book to one by Four Ways West, you will see that MSB maintains a consistently higher standard. If you doubt this, go back and look at Steve Goen's Katy in Texas book. Great photos, terrible reproduction. GS
My foreign location, an aging sick wife to care for and no journalistic education prevents me from composing the kind of book on Frisco passenger trains that would even come close to the excellent TRRA HS Texas Special publication. I honestly feel there are better qualified Frisco fans who can produce the kind of book I so desire and probably a lot of other Frisco Folks do too. My current family affairs must take priority. I hope all understand. Thanks for giving me to boost just the same. I have noticed that there is a Chris Toth who has published books on Norfolk Southern. We are not kin and it doesn't appear that he is a Frisco fan. A pity becaue he could probably fullfill my desire for a Frisco book on passenger trains. If my collection of Frisco sldies had come home to me I would have them scanned or put on a CD. This is the risk when you leave stuff behind and trust a friend to ship to you at a later date. He passed away so there is no going back to retrieve your goods. That's life so they say. Joe Toth
