2-8-8-2 SLSF 2006

Interesting stuff.

But they were not hand-fried engines, right?

Karl's post above reinforces my fuzzy memory that they were given first the Street stokers and then augers.

If they were running out of steam, apparently it was not the fault of the firebox or the heating surface.

The combustion chambers will go a long way to increase effective grate area, right?

Rather it was the inability to keep the fires supplied.

The performance then is pretty in efficient if not technically insufficient, at least by later metrics.

 

I have been doing some reading in the Withun book about steam locomotive development and came across an interesting engineering datum developed in the nineteen teens by Cole.

Apparently, firebox evaporating area is almost 3, 2.7, to be precise, times as effective as flue heating area. Flue area is good for 10 pounds of steam per square foot per hour. Firebox area is good for 27 pounds per square foot over the same period.

I have not yet discovered whether a figure exists for combustion chamber evaporative area, which one would imagine is somewhere between those two. Firebox evaporative area is not a linear function of grate area. A large grate suggests a large evaporative area, but the height of the sides of the box is a variable not dependent upon grate area.

Certainly, a large grate are does imply a large crown sheet area. In other words, total evaporative surface is not enough. It has to be the right ratio of kinds of evaporative surface.

Anyway, this pair of constants in the HP equation helps to clarify why and in what proportion) the ratio of firebox to flue evaporative area is crucial to the power of the locomotive.

Whether or not the 2-8-8-2 2001s had a problem in this respect is not yet clear to me. But it was well understood by the engineers, building types, not running types, of the time why many drag freight era engines were not performing adequately.

Superheat helped to address the problem. Super power accomplished through enlarged fireboxes, with much greater evaporative surface area, helped more.

Enter Lima, stage left.

 

A good railroad Design Engineering Department needed a good Energy Conversion Engineer and not just a Mechanical Engineer.

Also not a Project Manager that just goes for the "lowest bid".

The cost of coal or oil needs, and cost of number of watering stations required needed to be part of the bidding process before a purchase order was issued.

Charles

 

The last couple of weeks have been quite hectic.

BHP has completed the sale of all of its shale assets. I have been a part of the transition team, and I have been engaged with that process. The Petroleum business, shed of its shale assets, re-organized, and laid-off a large numbers of its staff. Technology, where I am, saw its support role diminished, and during the past two weeks executed its reorganization plan.

Last summer, we were a campus of about 1800 people. By the end of July, we will be a campus of about 800. Last week I had my chat with my boss and an human resources representative, and I was offered a role, lateral move, in the Petroleum.

Voluntary requests for severance were not taken. This move makes me very happy, and I will be working with some good folks. I am also in the middle of writing a paper for a conference, and will be happy when the conference will be over, and the changes at work are in place.

Back to the 2-8-8-2 Mallets. The 2001-class locomotives were delivered as soaks and as hand-bombers. The addition of Street stoker, solved the firing rate issue, but they were unreliable and required some disassembly to clear obstructions. The auger stokers completed the solution. Increased tender capacities, improved ranged.

As implied by its name, the combustion chamber allowed more complete consumption of the fuel, and further heated the gases coming from the burning coal.

The Frisco replaced the Mallets, with another drag-era, albeit "faster" locomotive, the spot class 2-10-2s.

The coming of the 4000-class 2-8-2s signaled the end of the drag era on the Frisco.

 

Karl,

I wish the best for you, including your employment new adventures. Keep up your health with all these sporadic events in your life.

I notice the patent was during WW I.

I wonder how that large war impacted the railroads?

I cannot understand how you have such a large, well organized filing system that is so quickly accessed?

I will just have to keep wondering.

Take care and good luck,

Charles

 

The creation of the USRA during the Great War had a major impact on US railroads.

They were both good and bad. Much has been written about this period. For example, I have read the the USRA help to kill the Colorado Midland. On the other hand, development of the USRA standard locomotive designs were a good thing.

My filing system not well organized.

 

I think you can throw the Missouri & North Arkansas into the "USRA bad" category.

I think I recall reading in Mr. Fair's book that the USRA's intervention into the M&NA created issues once they released the line.

Andre

 

Ken,

You pushed my doorbell.

Picture of our Jim Fair. It sure would be nice if we could have a phone call from Jim about some branch route that should of been constructed to Rush Zinc Mine. Or is that small gauge still hauling out lime or what can we do to have better internals within a 300' distillation tower.

He was the world's expert about distillation and fractionations. Jim was always fun! As a boy he road the M&NA across Arkansas to stay with is grandparents for the summer.

90 years old. October 11, 2010
Monsanto Company 33 years. In 1979, he shifted to academia, joining the University of Texas at Austin School of Chemical Engineering, where he founded the Separations Research Program. Jim worked for free after retirement with PhD Chemical Engineer candidates. He still had an office at University of Texas at Austin for 31 years.



Worked for 64 years. That was his everyday smile.

 

Jim's passions for fractionations and Ozark railroads.

Jim was with Monsanto' s staff Central Engineering Department 1965 - 1979. He was one of CED's Directors. Already the World's expert about fractionations. It was his research that kept the fractionation technologies always getting better.

"What can we do to have better internals within a a 300' distillation tower?"

Those towers could sway in a storm's strong winds. The liquid on tower internal trays would not keep a constant level. The gas trough some tray orifices would bypass the liquid destroying the fractionation process.

Why did Jim take long weekends?

Going to Eureka Springs, he did research to write his book.

1990 - 2001
At Monsanto and its spun off Solutia I was associate representative to Fractionations Research, Inc. which Jim founded. The other was a chemical engineer. I was the mechanical engineer.

This phone call was about 1998. "Is that small gauge still hauling out lime?"
2000, he wished for me to look into a shade of paint. Tucson red.
2001 I retired from Monsanto's spun off Solutia.
This phone call was 2004; to be looked into, "a branch route? That perhaps could have been constructed to Rush Zinc Mine".

I moved to Arkansas in 2006 which was very hectic. New phone number changed several times. We never talked again. He was to have 4 more years of his fun.

Those styles were like he used with his graduate students. His work passions were always fun for him for 64 years. He was a "People" person. Jim was a "team" person also.

If there is a distillation towers in heaven, he is there. If there is also a tank car to haul the refined product away, he is smiling.

 

It looks like the patent was applied for in 1910 and granted in 1915, well before the US was involved in WWI.

 

Thanks for sharing Karl.

What would be a great picture would be a Mallet going across one of those Alabama swing bridges.

All the pictures I have seen do not show any trains on them. I like to study all the different designs of the roller, wheel and gear systems.

I do not think that any structural engineers ever use any design more than once.

Charles