I have looked through the forum for the answer to this and cannot find an answer. Is there any record or knowledge of which 1500 class locomotives had green boilers at some time in their history? Thanks, Paul Moore
The only steam engines on the Frisco that I know of were the 4-4-0 SLSF 182-187 class back in the 1920s. Every now and then, somebody starts the green 1500 thing going. I would want to see photographic proof.
On page 26 of the book Frisco Southwest there is a brief reference to a "green livery" in the caption to a 1923 photograph of 4-8-2 SLSF 1501. I think that is where the whole green idea came from. But hey it is a black and white photograph so who knows. Tom G.
There has been talk of it off and on for years. Most photographs from the steam era were obviously black and white, and it is difficult, if not impossible, to really tell color differentiation from black and white photographs. With all the discussion of green boiler Frisco passenger steam locomotives I have heard, I thought there might be some truth to it. There is such a tremendous knowledge base on this forum, I thought it would be worth asking to see if anyone knows of any records regarding the apparently-fictitious green boilers on 1500s. There is similar debate on the D&RGW side of things regarding green boiler jackets. What color of green was it? Did they exist in narrow gauge or not? There have been several articles written, but who knows what the truth really is. There was one article about a particular black and white photograph that supposedly demonstrated a green boiler due to the apparent color difference between the cab and boiler jacket. One extremely knowledgeable person pointed out that the cab or cab and tender could have been repainted for some reason. It could have been renumbered, given a new lettering style, etc. due to damage repair. Yet the boiler was left the way it was before the repair. I am hoping to paint an HO Toby 1500 fairly soon and wondered if there was any factual evidence supporting boiler color. It will probably end up being black! Thanks for the responses.
See page 18 in this Frisco Employee's Magazine (FEM). https://thelibrary.org/lochist/frisco/magazines/fem_1928_11/fem_1928_11_16.pdf I believe that only two of the 4-4-0 SLSF 182 class engines received the Pullman Green jackets. I frequent a narrow gauge site, and one can start a war by claiming that the Denver and Rio Grande Western (D&RGW) locomotives had a green jacket.
I think you are right about the 4-4-0 SLSF 183 and 4-4-0 SLSF 187 being the only two. They are also referenced in the Baldwin magazines from the 1920s, two of which had a thorough writeup of the Frisco. I did manage to finally find a photograph of 4-4-0 SLSF 187 with the coffin feed water heater showing where the pump was located.
Thanks for the information Don and Karl. The one to be painted will definitely be black. My painted Toby 1500 is SLSF 1527. I bought it already painted, and lots of people apparently like to do the one on display in Alabama. The next one I do will probably be SLSF 1522. Are there a couple of detail differences that set it apart? It would be nice to not just duplicate my existing 1500 with a different number. Thanks, Paul Moore
Interesting thread and great photographs. I had never read or heard of the green boiler-jacketed 1500s, and I figure if neither Don nor Karl are familiar with it, then it is urban legend. Neither here nor there but the airhorns on the cab of SLSF 183 are a bit ludicrous looking. Lest I start more rumors, it seems like I had read somewhere that one of the 4-4-0s kept its boiler jacket until scrapping, but that it was ultimately painted in a standard gloss black. Best Regards,
I have never noticed, seen or paid attention to the Coffin feed water system on that engine. It looks like you could dump a lot of water into that small boiler in a hurry. Those are great pictures Don.
