Need Help ID'ing Photos

Guys:

The two attached images were sent to me for the FRISCO IN COLOR volume 2 I am working on. Unfortunately there was very little caption information accompanying them. The passenger train was a grab from the photographer's car (obviously) and the date was indicated as June 2, 1954. The location is Tulsa, but the train is not identified. The angle of the sun, which may not show up clearly in this less-than-perfect scan, is directly overhead, which leads me to believe it is the FIREFLY, as it is the only arrival/departure scheduled for mid-day. However, I can't tell if it is going north or south.

The photo of the freight came with nothing--no date, location, nada. I have a feeling it is the Fort Smith line, but that is a guess based on what appears to be light rail and the fact that we have a three-unit lashup of F-units rather than the four that would have been more common on a main line freight in the early 1950s.

Anybody got any better ideas?

Greg Stout

 

Don't know either location, but agree that the passenger train is the Firefly, because of the two RPO's. I used to think the two RPO's would be only north of Fort Scott, (One running between Kansas City and Tulsa and the other between Springfield and KC via Ft. Scott) but there are other photos here and there with both RPO's all over the route. The freight train has extra flags and the trailing unit is either F-3 5000 or 5001. One of the two "chicken wire" F-3's with the smaller stripe divided.

Tom

 

The Firefly only ran between Kansas City and Tulsa.

Tom

 

If the picture of the passenger train was taken in the Tulsa area, it is 118. If the date is 1954,the Firefly didn't go west of Tulsa (I'll confirm that when I get home).

Tom, since the chair-baggage-RPO had only the 15 foot RPO section, I don't believe that it was used as a working RPO. A baggage-RPO with a 30 foot RPO-section did the work between KC and Tulsa.

 

May have been just used for the baggage and coach space, there were something like 15 seats in those cars (Numbers 82 & 83), but there are numerous photos of the Firefly with two RPO's. Firefly only went to Tulsa, but 111-112 (The Oklahoman) at different times went to OKC. In the recently posted 1951 TT, there, was an advertised OKC-Tulsa connection to 112 via train #4. Also, Karl in that photo you mentioned the other day in Kalmbach's book (Modeling Junctions), believed to be the Firefly at the Tulsa Interlocker, that train has the two RPO's.

Tom

 

McCall/Schultz book Frisco Southwest shows several photos of FIREFLY in or near OKC in 1939, 1940 and 1946. Guess we need to find out when the routing was abbreviated.

GS

 

Firefly service between OKC and Tulsa was discontinued on April 30, 1950

 

Given the arrival dates of the E-8's (late winter through mid-summer 1950) there is a very good chance that the Firefly remained under steam until April 30th. Either way, it was close.

 

My guess with the freight is north of Francis, OK along the Canadian. Jeff Cooney

 

Thanks to Jeff and Karl for their input. There are lots more of these to come.

GS

 

To Ken, who wondered which E8 appeared in the photo of the FIREFLY, I am sorry it slipped my mind responding. It was #2022, Champion. And they were elegant locomotives, which Frisco unfortunately let down appearance-wise near the end.

GS