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Thread: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

  1. #1
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    Default Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    This was posted on the MoPac Yahoo Group site and although it's not directly Frisco per se it may serve as an indicator of future trends that my affect us getting Frisco models produced. If they couldn't get enough pre-orders on an MP version, could they do better on a Frisco one? Hard to say, but I doubt it. Hopefully we aren't trending back to the old days when only the "big" RR's were produced and we had to
    paint and decal our own if we wanted them.

    "Joe DeLia of Athearn and A line, told a couple of attendees today at the Western Prototype Modelers meet in San Bernardino, California, that the new Mopac Genesis GP38-2 was being cancelled for lack of enough reservations.

    ...sorry to say....

    Keith Turley
    Pasadena, California"
    Bob Hoover
    FriscoFriend
    Modeling a small segment of the Wichita Sub-Division, circa. 1980, in HO called the
    "River City Railroad & Amusement Co."

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    This I'm afraid is a sign of the fallout of the limited edition bull hockey that has all but raped and pillaged the model railroad industry. Now you have the bad economy on top of it and its a recipe for massive scaling back. I'll stop here because politics is the next sentence and Frisco.org is a political-free zone. Thank God!
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    We, unfortunately, are forced to recognize that the model railroad industry has become more business-oriented in the sense that fewer of the businesses are run by modelers with passion for modeling's sake but are being run by business men driven by producing models for revenue's sake. Every variation from a standard design adds to the cost of a whole production run and the pennies quickly add up to dollars that drive the final price higher and higher. With peoples' disposable incomes where they are today, the tolerance to price variation or increase is pretty low. All factors that affect the decision-making processes.
    Keith Robinson
    KC, MO North
    Southeast...........Southwest
    Ship It on the Frisco!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    Manny:

    With all due respect, I believe the "Limited Edition" trend got us "lesser modeled RR's" hobbyists what we have. The economy in my opinion is the driving issue. The Tsunami equipped versions of these locos carried an MSRP of $279.98 and the non-sound version was listed at $179.98. Another factor may the amount of detailing that we have come to demand. Let's face it, $179.95 for a non-sound equipped locomotive is a lot of money. There has been a "bigger is better" trend to building large operating layouts in recent years and these guys will want multiple road numbers of a basic road switcher such as the GP38-2. With flex track going for over $4.00 a stick if you can even find it, I for one am predicting a movement to smaller switching type RR's at least until the economy settles down. Instead of a modeler reserving 3 or 4 road numbers they may be just ordering one or two.
    Bob Hoover
    FriscoFriend
    Modeling a small segment of the Wichita Sub-Division, circa. 1980, in HO called the
    "River City Railroad & Amusement Co."

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    In addition to this topic you have to add greed. How much profit do these company's have to make?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    I, for one, think an Athearn Genesis GP38-2 would easily outsell the MP version. It's a much more interesting looking locomotive. Athearn has had success with all of their recent Frisco locomotive models in HO - GP35, SD40-2, SD45, GP15-1, etc. Plus, there is a long record of success from the old Blue Box era - SW1500, SD40-2, GP40-2, GP38-2, etc. They have done many more Frisco locomotives than they have done MoP's.

    Try us, Athearn! Go ahead and announce a Genesis Frisco GP38-2! I'll bet you will like the results. You need to do the new SW1500 in Frisco colors as well, and ..... how about the new Genesis GP7 in b/y? History suggests that would be a certain best seller.

    Ken
    Last edited by meteor910; 04-16-2012 at 04:27 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    Quote Originally Posted by meteor910 View Post
    I, for one, think an Athearn Genesis GP38-2 would easily outsell the MP version. It's a much more interesting looking locomotive. Athearn has had success with all of their recent Frisco locomotive models in HO - GP35, SD40-2, SD45, GP15-1, etc. Plus, there is a long record of success from the old Blue Box era - SW1500, SD40-2, GP40-2, GP38-2, etc. They have done many more Frisco locomotives than they have done MoP's.

    Try us, Athearn! Go ahead and annoounce a Genesis Frisco GP38-2! I'll bet you will like the results. You need to do the new SW1500 in Frisco colors as well, and ..... how about the new Genesis GP7 in b/y? History suggests that would be a certain best seller.

    Ken
    I second Ken's proposal and cast 1 million votes for the proposal.
    Ship It on the Frisco!

    Rick

  8. #8

    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    I've become acquainted with the owner of my local hobby store and he has expressed his disappointment over the lack of sales of the Genesis Frisco GP15-1. When the RTR GP40-2 and SD45 were released, he quickly sold out of those. I was one of the first to get a SD45 from him and thought it was decently priced at $95.00. Now whenever I go in the store, he hits me up to buy one of the GP15-1's that he still has in stock. He's offering the regular DC version for $135.00, down from $149.00 six months ago. Regardless, it's out of my reach (that's not his fault or Athearn's for that matter, it's just the way it is).

    If I could cast a vote, it would be for the GP38-2 and GP7 (black and yellow) in a standard RTR form. Actually, they would be in kit form with metal handrails, but that's asking too much.

    Pat Moreland,
    Union Mo.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    When consider a sign of the times we have a toughted membership of 2,484 names. Atlas wanted 500 names when spoke to a sales rep about a GP7. Companies these days need at least that much to get a maker in China. We advertise other groups selling Frisco Flat Cars or Cabs, have bought dedicated Frisco gondolas on eBay. Why can't we get a magic number necessary for a reasonable price then both buy and sell on our own? Get the units we want made, support our membership, if have excess offer open market? The manufactures will say Midwest trains don't sell. We provide the buyers up front, could maybe get 4 to 5 units a year instead of talk of it? Something to think about. Sorry offered an opinion, will be quiet a while!

    Rick
    Last edited by treefrog; 04-16-2012 at 08:45 PM. Reason: sic

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    Quote Originally Posted by wpmoreland719 View Post
    I've become acquainted with the owner of my local hobby store and he has expressed his disappointment over the lack of sales of the Genesis Frisco GP15-1. When the RTR GP40-2 and SD45 were released, he quickly sold out of those. I was one of the first to get a SD45 from him and thought it was decently priced at $95.00. Now whenever I go in the store, he hits me up to buy one of the GP15-1's that he still has in stock. He's offering the regular DC version for $135.00, down from $149.00 six months ago. Regardless, it's out of my reach (that's not his fault or Athearn's for that matter, it's just the way it is).

    If I could cast a vote, it would be for the GP38-2 and GP7 (black and yellow) in a standard RTR form. Actually, they would be in kit form with metal handrails, but that's asking too much.

    Pat Moreland,
    Union Mo.
    135 bucks? Hmm......wonder what he charges for shipping? I'm almost tempted to spring for it myself!

    Seriously, what really depresses me is the price of even the RTR items being offered. SInce I'm not rolling in dough, I have to watch & plan my purchases, and I follow the First Rule of Buying:

    Thou Shalt Not Pay Full Retail Price.

    I know the hobby manufacturers would like to at the least cover their costs, and hobby shops would like to turn a profit, but again, the prices put me off.
    Bob Thompson
    Modeling the A&A and Arthur Subs circa 1975-1977
    Ship IT on the FRISCO!

  11. #11

    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    "The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated." - Mark Twain

    Posted on the Mopac list today; "I received a reply from Athearn today. The Genesis Mopac GP38-2 locomotives ARE NOT canceled. Good news."

    Guys I can tell you when I offer anything Frisco, Mopac, Rock Island or MKT it is not based on a good business decision. It is purely a decision based on personal preference. I am still a modeler with much interest for the Midwestern roads that I grew up with. Without a doubt, ATSF, UP, SP, PRR, NYC will all outsell the Midwestern roads by a huge margin.

    Dale Rush
    Blair Line LLC
    Carthage, MO
    Last edited by trainsignguy; 04-17-2012 at 09:45 AM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    Quote Originally Posted by trainsignguy View Post
    "The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated." - Mark Twain

    Posted on the Mopac list today; "I received a reply from Athearn today. The Genesis Mopac GP38-2 locomotives ARE NOT canceled. Good news."


    Dale Rush
    Blair Line LLC
    Carthage, MO
    Dale:

    That is not good news, it's great news. When I put the post up I questioned it's vaidity some but it seemed to be from a reputable source. Having said that, it being my original post, did spark some lively discussion.
    Bob Hoover
    FriscoFriend
    Modeling a small segment of the Wichita Sub-Division, circa. 1980, in HO called the
    "River City Railroad & Amusement Co."

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    Athearn just annouced they will do the MP GP38-2.
    Richard E. Napper
    Frisco Northern Model Railroad
    Modeling the Northern Division and Sheffield Steel in Kansas City, MO and Coal Mines in Missouri

  14. #14

    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    Terry, I was thinking the same thing. It is becoming a wealthy man's hobby, although it may not quite be there yet. It wasn't but just a few years ago that a train consisting of 10 cars might represent an investment of $100.00, minus the engine. Now for $100.00, you'll typically get two, maybe three cars. I understand that a RTR freight car priced at $35.00 might be justified for having a lot of realistic details, but what about those of us who would like something really basic with the option of adding on details at a later time? Inexpensive kits are still out there, but there seem to be fewer and fewer each year. I think that within the next five years, they will have disappeared altogether.

    I recently participated in an online survey from Classic Metal Works which asked what new models customers would like to see, what prices we thought were reasonable, and if kits were preferred over ready built models (price considered). I thought that was great......a company that was interested in what it's customers wanted. Walthers recently did a customer survey as well. Now if only Atlas, Horizon Hobby, and the others would follow suit.

    Pat Moreland,
    Union Mo.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    Quote Originally Posted by geep07 View Post
    In addition to this topic you have to add greed. How much profit do these company's have to make?
    Just like you, they want to make as much money as they can. They have to balance many more aspects that go into the decision-making process, but that money they make is their paycheck. Don't you want as much as you can possibly get in your paycheck? The desire to get ahead and do well economically is not greed.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    Oh yeah, before I forget, thanks Dale, for not jumping on the Santa Fe/Union Pacific/Pennsylvania bandwagon and excluding everything else. Please keep doing what you're doing. I just put one of your SLSF billboards on my layout this morning.

    Pat Moreland,
    Union Mo.
    Last edited by wpmoreland719; 04-17-2012 at 11:52 AM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    Quote Originally Posted by wpmoreland719 View Post
    Oh yeah, before I forget, thanks Dale, for not jumping on the Santa Fe/Union Pacific/Pennsylvania bandwagon...
    Pat Moreland,
    Union Mo.
    It's Santa Union Pennsylvania time!
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

  18. #18

    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    Thanks Pat, I appreciate your business!

    Dale Rush

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Potentially Bad "Sign of the Times"

    Quote Originally Posted by trainsignguy View Post
    Thanks Pat, I appreciate your business!

    Dale Rush
    Nice to know the guy who makes the VERY BEST wooden grade crossings for country folk is a Frisco guy and on the board. Blair Line LLC crossings! Woot! Woot!
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

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