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Thread: Rebuilding a Mellor 2-6-2/2-8-0 Conversion

  1. #1
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    Default Rebuilding a Mellor 2-6-2/2-8-0 Conversion

    Yahooooo!

    I'm so excited. I just scored a Mellor 432 Conversion kit that I have been looking for for 10 years! I now can build a SLSF 76! I have a Leetown Clear Vision Tender for her. This is way too cool. I'm so happy! This will be the first build of the year for me and will start shortly. It will be a play by play with tons of pics!

    Stay tuned!

    Manny
    Last edited by SAFN SAAP; 03-21-2011 at 09:21 PM.
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    Congratulations, Manny. I'm not a big fan of steam, but I look forward to seeing your efforts take place. Do keep us posted.
    Kevin Love
    Dadeville, MO

  3. #3

    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    Howdy Manny,

    What a blast from the past. Have fun building the loco. It might make a nice article to post on forum, step by step ;-).

    Best,
    mike
    Retired Website Manager
    Ship it on the Frisco
    FRISCO.org

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    Thanks!

    I want to take the opportunity to look the modified frame over and see if I can mill it out in brass, or have it replicated out of white metal. This is too valuable to pass up on.

    I will do everything step by step, including pics and will do a complete write up on it. I'm excited. I will try to do everything as close to #76 as I can.

    Thanks for the encouragement!

    Manny
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    Manny,
    please take pictures and write an article for The Meteor!
    Richard

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    Quote Originally Posted by renapper View Post
    Manny,
    please take pictures and write an article for The Meteor!
    Richard
    Yes sir! Will do! I will be posting up pics from start to finish. You will have the choice of the litter. I would be honored to have an article in the Meteor. Anything to support the FRISCO and the FRISCO.ORG family! I'm humbled. Thank you so much for the opportunity.
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    I was just considering where to start the build thread at. I can do it here, or I can start it where management would like me to do. Please let me know. I'll be starting shortly with the tender build.
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    Just send the picxtures ad article to me at renapper@centurylink.net. The artilce can be in plain text or MS word. and the pictures can be JPEG.
    Richard

  9. #9

    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    hey manny,

    I apologize for bidding that one up, I knew it was good but I couldn"t sit and snipe that one!! About a year back I lucked out and actually found a fully built Mellor 2-8-0 on ebay that was very nicely done - had no idea what it was when I bought it, but after a week of research I someone online came up with some details. It's being a bit tight when it comes to putting the can motor in place of the openframe motor, but I WILL get it there...later, of course. I have work in the way at the moment. This one, well, I couldn't resist!

    When it does arrive, would you be able to send a scan of the instructions? The seller sent me a PDF, but unfortunately the fourth page came up grayed out - scanner error.
    Ben

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    Hey Ben,

    No problem. I wasn't about to lose that one. It's all good. Yes, I will be more than happy to PDF the instructions for you. Would you please forward the PDF you received to me? My email is railroadinmanny@msn.com. Thanks!
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

  11. #11

    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    Then I'm REALLY glad i wasn't home where i could snipe that one!!! We would have taken each other to the cleaners for Sure!

    I found the thread I posted about my 2-8-0. It's a bit different from your 2-8-0, but it's in the same theory or genra - it might be another kit altogether!!!

    http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=61565

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    I've seen that one. It's nice. It is a Mantua frame, but the boiler still escapes me. I have to research it a little bit. As for the snipe, you would have had to bid over $250.00 to get it. I was prepared to go that high.
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

  13. #13

    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    I have ran into a post on trainboard from a frisco fan looking for this kit over ten years ago - I bet it's not been much easier to locate one since, either!! I was banking on nobody knowing what it was, which nowadays is far and wide! I'm glad you scored it, knowing now you've been looking for it for some time.

    The boiler on mine is indeed the Tyco/Mantua 2-6-2 boiler shell, it just doesn't look like it because a TON of work was done on it. The cab is a brass sheet replacement, the rest a number of detail parts. But the tattletale signes are where the old caston plastic piping used to be - in some places, the builder wasn't as precise, and it's visible enough - but you can't see it unless you're looking at it in person.

    The pictures from your auction suggest that Mellor went through a couple designs, or at the least, people were doing a lot of work back in the 80s or so playing around with the cheapie mantua/type stuff. You have a solid plate under the drivers, unlike mine with the rear "booster" driver. If I am correct, that plate would be from the the locomotive-motored version of the Tyco 2-8-0 - yes, there was a locomotive-motored version, because I have the mechanism/chassis from one! From what I understand, though, when Tyco sold off the train division, they sold the new 2-8-0, 2-8-2, and 4-6-2 to IHC, while the rest of the line fell back to Mantua. IHC then when back and did a round of revisions of their own, thus producing the Premier 2-8-0 which looks indeed to be a knockoff of the Tyco 2-8-0, albiet with a lot of rework. The boiler, for instance, is almost a perfect 1:1 copy. But I do believe many things behind the scenes we will never truely know...
    Last edited by Benny; 03-19-2011 at 05:27 PM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    Quote Originally Posted by Benny View Post
    I have ran into a post on trainboard from a frisco fan looking for this kit over ten years ago - I bet it's not been much easier to locate one since, either!! I was banking on nobody knowing what it was, which nowadays is far and wide! I'm glad you scored it, knowing now you've been looking for it for some time.

    The boiler on mine is indeed the Tyco/Mantua 2-6-2 boiler shell, it just doesn't look like it because a TON of work was done on it. The cab is a brass sheet replacement, the rest a number of detail parts. But the tattletale signes are where the old caston plastic piping used to be - in some places, the builder wasn't as precise, and it's visible enough - but you can't see it unless you're looking at it in person.

    The pictures from your auction suggest that Mellor went through a couple designs, or at the least, people were doing a lot of work back in the 80s or so playing around with the cheapie mantua/type stuff. You have a solid plate under the drivers, unlike mine with the rear "booster" driver. If I am correct, that plate would be from the the locomotive-motored version of the Tyco 2-8-0 - yes, there was a locomotive-motored version, because I have the mechanism/chassis from one! From what I understand, though, when Tyco sold off the train division, they sold the new 2-8-0, 2-8-2, and 4-6-2 to IHC, while the rest of the line fell back to Mantua. IHC then when back and did a round of revisions of their own, thus producing the Premier 2-8-0 which looks indeed to be a knockoff of the Tyco 2-8-0, albiet with a lot of rework. The boiler, for instance, is almost a perfect 1:1 copy. But I do believe many things behind the scenes we will never truely know...

    Seeing your initial goal, the 2-8-2, I do believe this botom plate will be in your favor.

    I am very curious to see the frame for this kit. BTW, that was me 10 years ago. I used to go by SLSFFRISCOKID back then. I'm a huge Mantua person, drive wise. I am very knowledgeable on how to mix and match to make stuff. Like I said, I intend to replicate the frame. The version you have is really nice. I never would have thought that it was a Mantua boiler. That has seriously been worked. I'll be using the older metal 0-6-0 boiler on my conversion. I am also going to switch to alligator guides and the proper Baker valve gear as per the 76. I will do test fitting on a 2-6-2 frame first before I use the Mellor frame. I'm so excited. I wish it here already. I can't believe how rare this kit seems to be. But since I got it, I'm sure they'll pop up all over the place.
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    Does (Did) "TYCO" the train company have any connection to the Tyco company (Or companies) that are in electronics, fire protection, sprinklers, alarms etc?

    Thanks, Tom

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    Quote Originally Posted by TAG1014 View Post
    Does (Did) "TYCO" the train company have any connection to the Tyco company (Or companies) that are in electronics, fire protection, sprinklers, alarms etc?

    Thanks, Tom
    No. Tyco is now owned by Mattel Toys. It used to be a secondary branch to Mantua Metal Industries. Back in the 50's John Tyler created the division, which was named TY-CO. It dealt specifically with R-T-R while Mantua dealt with kits. Tyco eventually began to peter out and died off in the late 70's/early 80's train wise. They had made a successful move during the 70's into slot car racing. Tyco eventually was reabsorbed into Mantua and ceased in 1993. Mattel bought them in 1997.
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

  17. #17

    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    Quote Originally Posted by SABRR View Post
    I am very curious to see the frame for this kit. BTW, that was me 10 years ago. I used to go by SLSFFRISCOKID back then. I'm a huge Mantua person, drive wise. I am very knowledgeable on how to mix and match to make stuff. Like I said, I intend to replicate the frame. The version you have is really nice. I never would have thought that it was a Mantua boiler. That has seriously been worked. I'll be using the older metal 0-6-0 boiler on my conversion. I am also going to switch to alligator guides and the proper Baker valve gear as per the 76. I will do test fitting on a 2-6-2 frame first before I use the Mellor frame. I'm so excited. I wish it here already. I can't believe how rare this kit seems to be. But since I got it, I'm sure they'll pop up all over the place.
    I think you might have the last one on earth...haha...yep, mine uses the plastic boiler from the 2-6-2, I only know this because I pulled out the 2-6-2 I have...I might have sold that basic 2-6-2 by now, but oh well, good Mantua cores are so easy to get I don't even shed a tear. The evidence is all on the inside where things have been changed, but otherwise..yep.

    I'm noting a number of prominent differences betwen your version and my version. This kit has a fourth bearing locked against the frame by a baseplate; my version has a fourth drive hanging on in a sort of pony truck fixture. Your version uses a brass facade sheet to fill in the rear gap. In my version, the builder simply cut another prairie for the additional frame and attached the addition to the first prairie frame's back - in no way interfering with the original mechanism.

    I'm thinking about your plans for making a new frame. In looking at my frame, and at your frame and the first page of the instrucitons in the auction, it seems to me that a new frame would indeed be most ideal. If I had the tooling and experience, I'd mill a new frame out of brass stock, using the original Mantua frame to assist in setting up the mill for the spacing of the axles, the slot for the gears, and the locations of tapped holes. I see your thoughts on the pilot, and in that area you might consider milling the frame similar to the Varney 4-6-0, or the Mantua 2-8-2/4-6-2.

    Which ever way works...there's much to consider here.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    Quote Originally Posted by Benny View Post
    I'm thinking about your plans for making a new frame. In looking at my frame, and at your frame and the first page of the instrucitons in the auction, it seems to me that a new frame would indeed be most ideal. If I had the tooling and experience, I'd mill a new frame out of brass stock, using the original Mantua frame to assist in setting up the mill for the spacing of the axles, the slot for the gears, and the locations of tapped holes. I see your thoughts on the pilot, and in that area you might consider milling the frame similar to the Varney 4-6-0, or the Mantua 2-8-2/4-6-2.

    Which ever way works...there's much to consider here.
    I have access to a machine shop that has a mill and I can do it quite easily. I intend on using brass bar stock. It will be too easy.
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Scored a Mellor 432 Conversion Kit for Mantua 2-6-2 / 2-8-0!

    Hi Y'all,

    How pleasantly surprised I was to have received my Mellor kit today around noon. I couldn't get the package open fast enough.

    The conversion is very interesting. Milling a fourth axle slot into a Prairie frame is too easy to do. You have to use a brass bushing to accommodate the fourth axle. The frame has all side details of the firebox and the fastening retainers removed. The frame is sleek.

    The firebox is made up of two brass pieces that were probably stamped. They are extremely thin, and in this particular case, beat up pretty good. They will need to be replicated.

    The kit included the 441-43 cab extending kit. It's basically toast. I have two of them to replace the damaged one with. The cab floor is again, stamped, with a tender deck plate hinged with two rolled tabs inserted into the floor. These two can be replicated and will need to be as it is damaged as well.

    The individual who attempted to build the kit used improper paint and also sprayed it too far from the model so it dried prior to hitting the model. The paint is overly thick.

    SABRR #76 will get a complete rebuild. The original Mellor frame will be cleaned and kept for measurements. A new Prairie frame will be converted. I am presently looking for the parts to convert to alligator cross heads and the appropriate hanger assembly.

    Here are tear down pictures at the impromptu engine facilities, known as the dining room table.

    The rebuild has begun.

    Stay tuned for more details...

    Manny
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCN1660.JPG   DSCN1661.JPG   DSCN1662.JPG   DSCN1663.JPG   DSCN1664.JPG  

    DSCN1665.JPG   DSCN1666.JPG   DSCN1667.JPG   DSCN1668.JPG   DSCN1669.JPG  

    DSCN1670.JPG   DSCN1671.JPG   DSCN1672.JPG   DSCN1673.JPG   DSCN1674.JPG  

    DSCN1675.JPG   DSCN1676.JPG   DSCN1677.JPG   DSCN1678.JPG   DSCN1679.JPG  

    Last edited by SAFN SAAP; 03-21-2011 at 09:50 PM.
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Rebuilding a Mellor 2-6-2 / 2-8-0 Conversion

    Manny,
    don't forget to write this conversion up as an Meteor article and forward it and your pictures to me.
    Richard

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Rebuilding a Mellor 2-6-2 / 2-8-0 Conversion

    Hey Richard,

    No worries. You'll get a condensed version with pics and materials for the Meteor as promised.
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Rebuilding a Mellor 2-6-2 / 2-8-0 Conversion

    Presently, I am looking for the proper hanger/crosshead guide yoke to model the 76. I have come close, but no cigar. I can find the correct hanger, but not the yoke. I am going to purchase an old AHM valve gear set up that has the proper hanger. The valve gear is complete, ready to install. The issue is that it is for a Pacific, Berkshire, or Hudson. It may be too big. If it is, then I will drop back to the Mantua hanger for their 0-8-0, 2-8-0 and work with that. Details coming soon.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails AHM Valve Gear.JPG  
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Rebuilding a Mellor 2-6-2 / 2-8-0 Conversion

    I received a Bachmann Doghouse from their Russian 2-10-0 for the Leetown Clearvision Tender kit. I checked it against a quick mock up of the tender. It will look good. I am going to start work on the tender while waiting for parts to come in for the locomotive. I took some pics. I'll post up shortly.
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Rebuilding a Mellor 2-6-2 / 2-8-0 Conversion

    I am presently working on reforming the frame from a brand new Mantua 2-6-2 frame. I'll post up pics shortly. I didn't forget the pics of the tender. I'll get them up later tonight. I'm awaiting a shipment of tools from Micro-Mark.
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Rebuilding a Mellor 2-6-2 / 2-8-0 Conversion

    After much searching, these came up on eBay and I won them. I confirmed the measurements with the seller and they match the Mantua 2-6-2 dimensions. They are from a HO Scale D&RGW 2-8-2.

    These are the closest I could find the 76's valve gear hanger. I will do a little modifying with drilling the holes on the sides, etc.

    Here are the pics.

    Moving along with the build slowly. Still waiting on tools.

    Randall "Manny" Morgan
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 76 Steam Chest.JPG   76 Yoke.JPG  
    Manny
    YesteRRails L.L.C., Owner/Operator
    San Antonio & Aransas Pass Railroad (1884-1925)
    San Antonio, Fredericksburg & Northern Railway (1913-1917)
    "Reflecting the Frisco influence in the railroads of the Texas Hill Country"

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