Howard Branch Abandonment - Tulsa Terminal

[mark]

The Howard Branch located within the Tulsa Terminal is in the process of final abandonment and will very soon be removed.

Unfortunately another cool piece of the Frisco will soon be no more. Contracts are in the process of being let for removal of rails, ties and other material for salvage or disposal.

Glenn if you or others in or near Tulsa can document and post photos before the removal I and others would be in your debt. Unfortunately, I am not currently in a position to get to Tulsa to document the branch before the contractors will do their dirty work.

Please get those pictures now! Do not delay.

Hope this helps.

Thanks!

Mark

[tboyne]

What is the Howard Branch at Tulsa? I'm not familiar with that.

[Karl]

Please see:

http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread....2565#post22565

[Sirfoldalot]

KARL .. What a memory, WOW
With all the history stuff from your Dad, you never cease to amaze me.

[TAG1014]

Karl--I guess the Howard Branch was how the Frisco 4500 was originally brought to Tulsa and placed at the fair grounds, correct?
Also Karl, on your map: The wye between the MV and Santa Fe, north of the interlocker--Is that where the Santa Fe trains were turned? Or at some other place?

Thanks, Tom

[Karl]

The 4500 was displayed at Mohawk Park, and not the fairgrounds. I am unfamiliar with ATSF operations in Tulsa. Perhaps someone can fill-in this detail.

Karl--I guess the Howard Branch was how the Frisco 4500 was originally brought to Tulsa and placed at the fair grounds, correct?
Also Karl, on your map: The wye between the MV and Santa Fe, north of the interlocker--Is that where the Santa Fe trains were turned? Or at some other place?

Thanks, Tom

[Karl]

In this case, the Boonville St flea markets in Springfield yielded this item.

KARL .. What a memory, WOW
With all the history stuff from your Dad, you never cease to amaze me.

[mark]

Terry,

The Howard Branch was an industrial branch or industry lead that left the Frisco main at Dawson. It ran south from the main forming a shape similar to an inverted "T".

The Howard Branch starts at a wye on the main line just north of East Pine Street and runs south to approximately East 15th Street. It is located between the primary roads of North Yale Avenue (to the west) and North Sheridan Road (to the east).

Karl, the ever resourceful, was kind enough to post a great map in the link above from 1955.

You can also zoom in and follow the line on this link: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...97504&t=h&z=14

Hope this helps.

Thanks!

Mark

[mark]

Tom,

The Santa Fe turned their passenger trains at their wye just to the north of their Tulsa yard.

Unfortunately "urban renewal" and expansion of the interstate highway system in the area has largely removed most all of the Santa Fe's facilities and industries in the area.

The ghost of the Santa Fe's wye can be seen in this satellite image: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...24376&t=h&z=16

It also shows in this view from terraserver-usa.com: http://terraserver-usa.com/image.asp...&qs=|tulsa|ok|

Hope this helps.

Thanks!

Mark

[TAG1014]

Mark--Is that anywhere near their Elgin St. building? Or can you give an intersection where that would be near--since these are mainly city street maps?

Thanks, Tom

[mark]

Tom,

Coming in from the northeast the Santa Fe first crossed the Frisco, then it immediately crossed the Katy and the Midland Valley within the Tulsa interlocking tower limits.

The line then turned west crossed East 1st Street and branched through a series of switches as it crossed South Greenwood Avenue before crossing South Frankfort Avenue.

These split into 4 tracks that served the south side of the Santa Fe freight house. The Santa Fe freight house address is 101-107 South Elgin Avenue (southeast corner of East 1st Street and South Elgin Avenue). Three other tracks, one pair and a single, to the south formed team tracks. All of these tracks ended at South Elgin Avenue. All of these tracks were north of East 2nd Street.

Sanborn Fire Insurance maps dated 1925 indicate that they served a couple of industries in the alley east of South Frankfort Avenue. These industries included a farm machinery sales and service company at 201, and industrial supply company at 301-303 and a furniture warehouse at 315-325 South Frankfort Avenue. I do not believe these industries lasted after WW II.

The balance of the Santa Fe's industries were north of the Tulsa interlocking tower.

Hope this helps.

Thanks!

Mark

[TAG1014]

Where was the Santa Fe wye in relation to the interlocker? The Santa Fe trains left Tulsa headed out (From Union Depot and later Elgin Ave.) to the North. Did they back in or were they turned after they headed in? Someplace before arriving or between arrival and departure, the train and engines were turned. I was trying to figure how that was done.

Tom

[Karl]

A photograph of the MV-SLSF-MKT-ATSF Interlocker and Train 118 with 2008 on the point may be found on page 23 of Kalmbach's "The Modeler's Guide to Junctions" by Jeff Wilson.

It's a good read with regard to prototype practices, and it will guide the reader in the steps required to build a model version of a true mechanical plant. It's a worthy addition to the modeler's and fan's library.

[Frisco2008]

I have set of downloads from Google maps covering the entire branch from the "wye" South.

This was "my" Frisco growing up...the run from Pine down to Admiral used to be bordered on the West by strip mining pits and overburden. And on the East by Independence Street.

We were absolutley forbidden to play in the strip pits...so, of course we spent all of our time there!

This was from 1952 when I moved here from Michigan, until 1960, when I moved to LA.

Glenn in Tulsa

[WindsorSpring]

What is the land use plan after abandonment?
Do they contemplate rail-to-trail conversion and transportation landbanking?

Some of the territory looks nice enough backdrop for that since it goes through some residential areas. The upside is the biker/blader/hiker can at least imagine himself at the throttle of a GP-7 (or a 3800 0-6-0).

[Steve40cal]

We have a new crossing on Pine Street on the Howard Branch (new as in less than 10 years old) but the crossings south of Pine have been taken out of service with Admiral being paved over. Admiral and 11th Street crossings were still old DC track circuit crossings until they were taken out of service. I have the prints for the Admiral crossing including the test sheets from 1955 when it was placed in service.
The locals that service Dawson and the airport use the wye at Dawson to turn around their trians and they cross the Pine street crossing if their train is long enough. It would seem at least the first half mile or so of the Howard Branch will stay in service but it is already out of service south of that point.
The Frisco had three shifts of locals servicing the branch back in the day. I'm not sure there is much more business left in the area that the railroad can run off.
I'll try and get some photos of the crossings before they are all gone. Ship it on the Frisco! Steve BNSF Railway