Anyone have roof photos of repowered FA or FB units

[friscomike]

Howdy folks,

I've looked at the various posts on the forum and still don't know how to properly represent a repowered FA/FB unit. I do recall a post of a model, but not a prototype. The last query was in 2008, and I am wondering if anyone has come up with any new photos or references to repower exhaust stacks?

Best regards,
mike

[TAG1014]

Mike--Ken Wulfert should be able to fix you up with that request. He's pretty much an expert on the Frisco FA's. One consolation: The Frisco FA/FB repowerings are hardly dectectible (Mostly just the stacks and builder's plate), say when compared to Katy and Rock Island FA repowerings. See what Ken says when he chimes in...

Tom

[meteor910]

Tom honors me with his praise, though "expert" is probably a bit strong of a term. I am, for sure, an Alco FA/FB fan, probably because a set of UP Alco FA-FA units was Santa's (and my dad's) response to my request for a diesel to add to our steam powered Lionel set. I loved that locomotive and ran the wheels off of it, mainly in streamlined passenger service, of all things. (Don and Gordon - that's where my diesel thing started - blame Santa!)

I think the Alco FA was the best looking diesel ever produced - in particular in the paint schemes that matched its shape well - B&O, Erie, GM&O, NYC and, yes, SLSF.

Mike - I could do an essay on the rebuild roofs. I'll send you a PM.

I have never seen a clear top view of one of the SLSF repowered units, but I have enough views at other angles to spec out where to put things. Fortunately, as Tom noted, by the time the Frisco had their FA's repowered (some of them), EMD had figured out how to do it without major surgery to the carbody, mainly by being able to reuse the Alco cooling system. Again fortunately, the roof of an FA/FB is pretty clean, and the repowerings did little to alter that.

Ken

[Sirfoldalot]

I think the Alco FA was the best looking diesel ever produced - in particular in the paint schemes that matched its shape well - B&O, Erie, GM&O, NYC and, yes, SLSF.
Ken

Make that the PA, and I will agree with you. The D&H and SP (daylight) were two of the prettiest paint jobs.

Ken, I still want you to do a PA in Frisco paint. I think it would have been beautiful. :)

[friscomike]

Howdy folks,

Thanks for the notes. I've been looking at photos and models to get an idea how the roof looked on a repower. I still have a few spark arrestors from the 70's, but think they are a bit heavy looking since they are cast metal. I'll look to see what is out there now.

The one detail I was most interested in what the old exhaust panel. Was it replaced with a simple plate? I noticed Ken's model had eye bolts. When I add the spark arrestors, I want to make sure they are positioned correctly.

FA's are beautiful and I can't wait to get the first set on Texas Western the run from St Louis to Fort Worth.

I have added sound to all three units, two being Alco and one repower. They'll sound nice together. Someone told me the Soundtraxx sound unit for Alcos was not correct for the FA. The problem was the number of cylinders represented. Not that I will change it, but am curious so I can fend off the rivet counters.

It is really too bad the Frisco didn't have PA's (from a modelers point of view, I am sure). They were gorgeous. I can just see one in red and silver pulling the Texas Special, gold and white..

Best,
mike

[meteor910]

Make that the PA, and I will agree with you. The D&H and SP (daylight) were two of the prettiest paint jobs.

Ken, I still want you to do a PA in Frisco paint. I think it would have been beautiful. :)

Sherrel - Yes, the PA was good looking, but, to me, the nose is too big and long. Maybe that is because I have a big "schnoz" myself. ;)

I always was an E-unit guy anyway for passenger units.

The Frisco "Racehorse" PA is on the list.

The Katy PA's were in a livery close to the Texas Special livery and gave a good idea what a PA in Texas Spl colors, or Meteor colors, would look line.

Ken

[TAG1014]

The very first Katy PA's had a shadowline paint scheme on their lower sides that gave them a "look" similar to the Texas Special E-7's, but it didn't last very long.

[Sirfoldalot]

Duuuh! :o
I either had forgot, or, was not aware that Katy had them.
I will have to look.
Thanks,

[TAG1014]

Mike--A source for top views of some FA (Actually FB) units are in Richard Napper's FA/FB kitbashing article in the August '83 (Issue # 38) FMIG Newsletter. There are top vews of his finished FB models, one stock and one rebuilt.

Tom

[meteor910]

Tom -

Thanks. I had forgotten about Richard's article in the FMIG NL.

Richard had little to choose from - the Lionel FA or the Train Minature FA. He chose the Lionel - probably because the nose was squared off better than the TM. These were the only two decent FA HO models availble back then.

Personally, I would have picked the TM. Though it's nose was not as good as the Lionel (more rounded), the rest of the body, and the roof, was better than the Lionel to my eye. Also, the TM was close to the correct dimensions, while the Lionel, as Richard points out in his article, was a bit short and had a too short wheelbase. The TM trucks were also pretty good.

FYI, Model Power also did an Alco set back then, but it was a FA2 unit. These are not correct for the Frisco, which were FA1's. There are several differences.

The Frisco FA/FB set posted in my album, SLSF 5208 and 5302, are TM units. The FA is repowered with a TanCan, the FB is a dummy. I hand painted these about a hundred years ago. They still show the roof d/b's, and have the air-cooled turbo. The roof panels are too pronounced. My P2K FA/FB/FA set, SLSF 5200-5300-5215, also in my album, show the much finer detail on the P2K roof panels. SLSF 5215 shows the replacement water cooled turbo, the other two show the original air cooled turbo.

The Lionel roof was a mess, but did not have the dynamic brake feature. The TM roof was marginally better, but did have the d/b's. The SLSF units did not have d/b's. The Proto 2000 FA/FB roof is very well done, and does not have the d/b complication.

Both the Lionel and the TM roof panels are way, way overdone. The roof of a FA/FB is very simple, and Lionel and TM both went way overboard showing the roof panels. Today, we have the Proto 2000 FA & FB, which are very well done, roof included, and do not have the complication of having d/b's.

I'm searching for some pics I can post that show the roofs of repowered Frisco FA/FB's. Possibly more later on repowered pics showing the arrangement up there after the EMD 567 was installed.

As a start, see the attached pic - SLSF 5217, Alco FA, powered with the original 244 engine with the air cooled turbo. Notice how uncluttered the roof is. This is an often-posted public pic, showing the Alco FA's as-delivered by Alco to the SLSF. Note the yellow handrails - they didn't last long before they were painted black by the Frisco. The P2K models are in the as-delivered scheme with yellow handrails, so that needs fixing quickly. Clean roof.

The EMD repowered FA units also had a relatively clean roof, but there were two different varieties. I'm looking for pics. Hopefully more to follow.

Ken