1953 Diagram GP-7 w/Steam Generators

[Karl]

This is from a Feb 10, 1953 diagram book.

[gbmott]

Thanks Karl, that's really interesting. I still can't imagine what their logic was it doing it though -- the marginal cost of adding front-end connections when they've made all the other expenditures for steam had to be awfully small. I'll look through old pictures and see if I can narrow down the date when they did fit the front connections. I suspect is was soon after your Diagram Book was published.

Gordon

[Iantha_Branch]

This is interesting. I was looking at the specs and it looks like they would have to refuel quite often compared to the GP38's which had I think a 3200 gal fuel oil comp. Shoot I think the new wide cabs of today can carry up 5300 gal :eek:
Also noticed it said MU to GP7 only. When would this have changed so they could MU to F units and later the GP35's and GP38's?

[gbmott]

My recollection is that the GP-7's had 6BL brakes which didn't mean that they couldn't MU with F's and E's (that had 24RL brakes), only that they could not be the controlling (lead) unit in a mixed consist. When, if ever, the brake schedule on the GP-7's was changed, I don't know.

Now someone correct me if I've overstepped my knowledge limits.

Gordon

[meteor910]

Gordon - I think the 6BL brakes remained on the GP7's their entire service life. I just checked my 11/78 loco diagrams and the 6BL brake is still on 'em.

Ken

[gbmott]

Ken

That makes me curious then, whether they might have continued to have 6BL's even after a handful of them went to Amtrak as switcher/work train locomotives. I don't know, but it is even possible that some may still be on Amtrak -- anyone know for sure?

Note to Terry Jankowski -- do you suppose any locomotive engineer today, outside of a heritage group, would know what to do with a 6BL brake? At least they didn't use manual transition.

Gordon

[meteor910]

Gordon -

Good questions. Don't know if Amtrak rebuilt them or not (probably not - they don't have any money). And, don't know if they are still in service today. They'd be 60 years old!

For the jobs they use/used the GP7 for - switching, MOW locals, shop duty, etc, the 6BL would likely be fine. I don't see any chance a GP7 would be in AMTK road service.

But, I'm just speculating - I don't know the facts.

Ken

[tmfrisco]

Gordon, I know you are right about the current engineers with the exception of the few "old heads" left who used the 6BL brake valve. It was on one of these GP7s in the 70s while running a hospital train that the engineer taught me how to use feed valve braking (illegal in today's rule book, but I used it some even in my last year of working). Since the 6BL did not have the maintaining feature to maintain a brake pipe reduction, it was the only way to set the brakes on a train with excessive brake pipe leakage and maintain the desired set. I did use this on some trains on the road switcher that I ran the last six years of my career because sometimes it was easier for us to bring all the cars (including cars with excessive brake pipe leakage) back to the yard than to leave them for the car department to repair on line as they would be in our way the next shift or two or three or....you get the point:eek:. Illegal:(, yes, but it was a good way for me to handle the train back to the yard. Ah, the memories keep coming, but I am still glad I'm retired. Terry

[pbender]

Good questions. Don't know if Amtrak rebuilt them or not (probably not - they don't have any money). And, don't know if they are still in service today. They'd be 60 years old!

For the jobs they use/used the GP7 for - switching, MOW locals, shop duty, etc, the 6BL would likely be fine. I don't see any chance a GP7 would be in AMTK road service.


I haven't been able to find any recent evidence the former Frisco GP7s that Amtrak had are still in service. The latest photo I've seen is of AMTK 760 in 1997.
See: http://www.hebners.net/amtrak/amtGP.html
and: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=81545
(The other former Frisco Amtrak GP7 I know of was 761. It is also shown on the first page above).
All the evidence I have seen indicates both units were used primarily as yard switchers.

There is still at least one Frisco GP7 running here in Louisiana in relatively unmodified form. SLSF581 is at what is now an ADM elevator near New Orleans.

Here she is in 1979: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1963168
And again in 2006: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2012140
And then two from 2008: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/LocoPicture.aspx?id=105754

Paul

[john]

I was just looking at some Frisco vest pocket diagrams of GP7's and I have a couple of questions.

5/1975 Steam generator equipped 600-605, 608-614, 617-618 "STEAM GEN (1) OK 4625 - 74 - DNB - R1"

Questions:

(1) Is this the same generators these locomotives were originally equipped with (as shown in Karl's diagram above)?
(2) Would these be working generators or deactivated equipment which was still on the locomotive?

None of these locomotives was listed in the 11/78 booklet. Was the limited (800 gal) fuel capacity a factor in their disposal?

The surviving (1978) GP7's were 500, 510, 561, 565, 569, 572, 598 (all 1700 gal) and 516, 517, 521, 528, 542, 574, 580-582, 584, 590, 594, 597-59?, 620, 627, 629-630, 632 (all 1200 gal).

[tmfrisco]

[QUOTE=john;29916]I was just looking at some Frisco vest pocket diagrams of GP7's and I have a couple of questions.

5/1975 Steam generator equipped 600-605, 608-614, 617-618 "STEAM GEN (1) OK 4625 - 74 - DNB - R1"

Questions:

(2) Would these be working generators or deactivated equipment which was still on the locomotive?

John, I saw several of the old steam generator equipped GP7s when I was hostling in Tulsa in the 70s, and not one of them had a working generator on them. The units I saw had the generators removed and replaced with concrete ballast. Having said that, I do remember seeing a deactivated steam generator on one of the units I hostled, but I can't remember if it was a GP7 or one of the FP7a units still in operation at the time. Maybe one of the more knowledgeable members can give more info on when they were removed on individual units if that info is even available. Terry

[Karl]

1. Yes the steam generators mentioned in the 1975 book are the originals. The number cited in the 1975 diagram book are the Vapor Clarkson model numbers. Look at the FP-7's in the same book. I have also attached a portion of the specs from cars 51-52 in which the model number is clearly referenced.

2. It is my understanding, that initally, as Terry states, the SG equipment was removed and replaced with concrete ballast; the water tank was converted for use as a fuel tank. As time progressed this process was deemed uneconomical, and the SG equipment was left intact; the water tank was reconfigured to handle fuel. If my recollection is correct, it's possible that the remaining (in 1975) GP-7's with steam generators AND water tanks were still functional.....to what degree remains another question.


I was just looking at some Frisco vest pocket diagrams of GP7's and I have a couple of questions.

5/1975 Steam generator equipped 600-605, 608-614, 617-618 "STEAM GEN (1) OK 4625 - 74 - DNB - R1"

Questions:

(1) Is this the same generators these locomotives were originally equipped with (as shown in Karl's diagram above)?
(2) Would these be working generators or deactivated equipment which was still on the locomotive?

None of these locomotives was listed in the 11/78 booklet. Was the limited (800 gal) fuel capacity a factor in their disposal?

The surviving (1978) GP7's were 500, 510, 561, 565, 569, 572, 598 (all 1700 gal) and 516, 517, 521, 528, 542, 574, 580-582, 584, 590, 594, 597-59?, 620, 627, 629-630, 632 (all 1200 gal).