Springfield Yard - Operations Info Request

[Rick McClellan]

As the expansion to Springfield takes place, it's nice to take a break and do some railroad reading including the Trains article "SY 03-08-80" from the January 1981 issue. While I plan on condensing the track diagram on pgs 24-25, I need some info from you guys in the know.

1. I am guessing that through trains working in SY (like TYKC, 30) were worked from tracks L1N and L1S, correct?

2. Bowl tracks had assignments. What track went to which destinations?

3. Where did west/north bound trains stop for their crew change? On the east side of the Long North tracks or the west? Either way they would need a limo ride to the yard office.

4. Did the MP interchange with the Frisco at Springfield? If so, did it interchange cars at SY or the South Yard?

5. Was the 03-08-80 train log typical of the late 1970s for SY activity? I am modeling 1975-78 and want to use this as my train line up unless better info is available.

6. What was the typical train length for coal movements to the James River Power Plant?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[w3hodoug]

I think Charlie Dischinger's article in FMIG LINES 104 covered most of your questions.

He'd be the one to ask via direct e mail. Ron Williams is also modeling that yard?

BTW, where did Jan Jester's model of the Newburg depot end up?

[w3hodoug]

More research from Charlie in the FMIG LINES issues:

http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?t=2117&page=5

Posts 111, 119 and 120 for downloading.

[HWB]

The article you refered to is also called 24 hours on the Frisco???? Ive been looking for what I thought was that article and can't find it

[Rick McClellan]

Howard,

I believe the "24 Hours on the Frisco" was the subtitle to the name of the article "03-08-80." Jan 1981 Trains if you are hunting. It has a set of Conrail power coming at you on the cover.

Doug,

The Newburg depot is safely displayed in my crew lounge until I get the line to St Louis in. As of this date all I can say is we have completed the benchwork for the permanent Tulsa staging (located under Lamar MO). I want to run a few sessions with the Tulsa staging open so I can see how the 4-5% grade affects the operation. Looks like a few more weeks until we can get to Springfield.

[Sirfoldalot]

With the help of a few sly undercover agents, I have obtained a photo of Rick's planned Dispatcher Office. This will be built in a bunker twenty feet below the main layout.

[meteor910]

Need to have some peanut butter available down in that bunker!

Ken

[rcmck]

And if infants are allowed down there, and somone accidently spilled some peanut butter, you'd have:

Bunker peanut butter on the rubber-baby-buggy-bumper, in Rick's bunker?

:)

Oh, what if the floor wasn't smooth?

Then, you'd have:

Bunker peanut butter on the rubber-baby-buggy-bumper, in Rick's bumpy bunker?

:D

Say it fast several times!

[Rick McClellan]

More research from Charlie in the FMIG LINES g.


Thanks for the reminder on this info Doug. It answers several of my questions especially the Springfield bowl track assignments.

[Iantha_Branch]

Howard,

I want to run a few sessions with the Tulsa staging open so I can see how the 4-5% grade affects the operation.

I thought of something for pulling power on that grade. I bet about 5 or 6
SD45's will pull a train up that grade. While frisco never put that many together at a time, I think I would get the job done. It would work better than my mike trying to pull 25 cars out of Tulsa by it's self ;):D:rolleyes:

[Rick McClellan]

Now that we have operated the Springfield Yard (SY) for a few sessions, I have even more questions.

1. What were the stockyard tracks used for in the late 1970s. I believe the stockyard went away as a customer but do not know when that happened. I the early 80s I remember seeing SLSF units (in green) stored there.

2. How often did the North Yard crew shuttle cars to SY? I know traffic would have dictated a lot of this but thought there might be a schedule . . . .

3. Did the North Yard crew switch all along Commercial St. or was there another "Zone" crew that spotted and picked up cars? Did the North Yard crew use a caboose? I never saw one but I wasn't there all the time. If they used a caboose, was it a transfer type in the 1970s? Late 1940s? Did the Zone crews use a caboose? If so what type?

4. Did the Mainline Dispatcher route trains in and out of SY or did the Yard Master control trains arriving and departing? (I know this is kind of basic but I want to be sure.)

5. How long did the reefer icing function last and how long were the icing platforms in place?

6. Was there any storage of road cabooses on the west end of the yard? I only know about the track on the NE end of the bowl.

7. When did the concrete TOFC ramps go in at the North Yard? I have seen old photos of an old flat car ramp that looked like N Yard. When were the TOFC tracks installed? If they had been there a long time, what was their previous use?

8. Where were automobiles unloaded in Springfield in the 1970s? At SY? Can't seem to find a track chart with auto unloading on it. Where were autos unloaded 1948-50? Assuming there was a dock somewhere for the box cars?

9. Where were Containers on a Flat Car (COFC) unloaded in Springfield in the late 1970s? How were they unloaded? Front end loader/lift truck? Elves?

Thanks for the help. Springfield has created a lot of questions.

[TAG1014]

I can answer one of the questions: When a train approached Springfield it would call the yardmaster on the radio with it's location. "QLA at Glenstone Avenue" etc. The yardmaster would tell them to hold at such and such a location and a little later tell them which track to come in on. If the yard was ready and not busy (No other engines or trains blocking) the yardmaster would tell them which track imediately and they wouldn't have to hold back. Sometimes though if they were really busy, the yardmaster would have the trains hold several miles outside of town. I haven't listened too much to my scanner lately, but I believe it's still done this way today on the BNSF.

Tom

[bob_wintle]

Rick:
I remember seeing cars being stored on tracks behind the stockyards in the late late seventies. They appeared to be cars awaiting repairs or to be scrapped. After the merger all I remember being on them was locomotives.

[Rick McClellan]

Thanks for your replies Tom and Bob. Keep 'em coming. Springfield is coming alive !

[Coonskin]

Rick:

I work with a fellow that started with the Frisco in '71 here at Fort Smith, AR, working at various locations/subs. He stayed through the BN years, and now the A&M years. (He is retiring next year.) I know he worked Springfield Yard, for it has come up in our tall tales we spin at times. (He may have worked SY some during the Frisco years, but I know he worked it quite a bit during the early BN years.)

Rather than trying to hit him with all the above list, what would be couple of questions that you deem most important, and I'll see if I can remember to ask him about it.

Andre

[Rick McClellan]

Rick:

I work with a fellow that started with the Frisco in '71 here at Fort Smith, AR, working at various locations/subs. He stayed through the BN years, and now the A&M years. (He is retiring next year.) I know he worked Springfield Yard, for it has come up in our tall tales we spin at times. (He may have worked SY some during the Frisco years, but I know he worked it quite a bit during the early BN years.)

Rather than trying to hit him with all the above list, what would be couple of questions that you deem most important, and I'll see if I can remember to ask him about it.

Andre


Thanks Andre,

The information I want most is how the North Yard operated and how it interacted with SY.

Thanks.

[Karl]

While this is not necessarily german to your late-70's date, I have a Frisco document entitled "Terminal Facilities and Operations- Springfield". It is dated October 30, 1961. Even though the date is too early for you, certain bits of information might be helpful.

I will scan the document for you.

[Coonskin]

Well Rick, you're already over my head. (Doesn't take much.) North Yard and SY? Did Springfield Yard also have a seperate yard referred to as North Yard? (In Fort Smith we have a North Yard and a South Yard.)

FWIW: As we shot the bull today, I asked about the SY jobs working outlying industries or adjacent industries. He said if you worked a "bowl job" (classifying cars in the main classification yard), you only worked in the bowl. The outlying industries were switched by different jobs. However, I now see I don't have a good grasp of what you're asking (North Yard job interacting with SY)... so until I do, I won't be able to ask "smart" questions... only ignorant ones.

Is there a map of the Spingfield region posted here/somewhere that I can view to become more familiar with the area?

Andre

[TAG1014]

The Springfield yards were: The "South Yard" near the passenger station, "The North Yard" where the Jefferson Avenue foot bridge is and where the former Frisco Museum was. "SY" (Sometimes referred to as the "Kansas Yard" or "Kansas Avenue" yard) is the main large yard where the shops are, under the Kansas Avenue overpass. There used to be an approach signal for westbound trains toward the eastern end of the "North Yard" which had signs under its lights that read "North Yard" and "Kandas Yard." I supposed it was lit for where the yardmaster wished the train to go.

Tom

PS: The North Yard was the old original Frisco yard (St. Louis-Oklahoma line). The South yard was the "Memphis Road" yard (The old KC, Ft. Scott and Gulf etc.) "SY" was the new yard constructed in the diesel era along side the shops.

[pbender]

The Springfield yards were: The "South Yard" near the passenger station, "The North Yard" where the Jefferson Avenue foot bridge is and where the former Frisco Museum was. "SY" (Sometimes referred to as the "Kansas Yard" or "Kansas Avenue" yard) is the main large yard where the shops are, under the Kansas Avenue overpass. There used to be an approach signal for westbound trains toward the eastern end of the "North Yard" which had signs under its lights that read "North Yard" and "Kandas Yard." I supposed it was lit for where the yardmaster wished the train to go.


The Kansas Ave Yard was also known as "West Yard" or "West Springfield".

Paul

[yardmaster]

For some further background and cross-references on Springfield:

Karl Brand has posted some maps of Springfield area station sites:
http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?1610-Springfield-Station-Sites&highlight=Springfield

Furthermore, Page 7 of the May/June/July/August All Aboard publication from the Frisco Museum (digitized and made available by Dr. Mike Condren) has a rough map of the proximity of all yards and facilities in the Frisco's heyday.

http://condrenrails.com/Frisco/Frisco-Museum-All-Aboards/AA1994.5-8.v9.3-4.pdf

Best Regards,

[Rick McClellan]

While this is not necessarily german to your late-70's date, I have a Frisco document entitled "Terminal Facilities and Operations- Springfield". It is dated October 30, 1961. Even though the date is too early for you, certain bits of information might be helpful.

I will scan the document for you.

Karl, that is the exact document I have been searching for. I have the KC version about the same date and it has lots of good information about how the KC yards were operated, customer lists, interconnecting railroads, freight house locations, etc. These yard operation documents would be a great addition to the Operations section of this website.

Thanks for your help Karl and I look forward to seeing the Springfield version.

[Rick McClellan]

Did Springfield Yard also have a seperate yard referred to as North Yard? (In Fort Smith we have a North Yard and a South Yard.)


Andre

I will see if I can scare up a general map. I don't have anything made by the company but I think there is something in my archives.

At a high level I believe that North Yard in the 1970s handled TOFC (there were three ramps there), reefers for Kraft (special reefer track south of the TOFC ramps) and cars to be switched along Commercial St. (this is a pure guess on my part). I remember seeing lots of covered hoppers and box cars in the North Yard in the early 1980s before the BN changed a lot of the operation. The North Yard even had it's own office just north of the old CTC building at the corner of Commercial and Washington.

[Karl]

Is there a map of the Spingfield region posted here/somewhere that I can view to become more familiar with the area?

Andre

http://www.frisco.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=5239&d=1204595801

[pbender]

The North Yard even had it's own office just north of the old CTC building at the corner of Commercial and Washington.

Here is one of my photos of that yard office:

http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?310-Yard-Offices-misc&p=10136#post10136

Paul

[SteveM]

http://rrsignal.com/photos/ (http://rrsignal.com/photos/)

Rick, here's a site with photos of the CTC panels in Springfield, plus others all over the system, plus many other roads. Appropriate for your earliest sessions? Think Joe could whip one of these up for you?

[TAG1014]

The internet never ceases to amaze me! Whodda thunk that there would be photos of CTC instalations posted--anywhere!!?? Or who would possibly have been intersted enough to post them?

Tom G.

[w3hodoug]

Wow! What's not to love about that photo of the WB entering Newburg?

[pbender]

Very Interesting. I would be very interested in finding the panels for around Springfield after the new East Belt was built. MK junction is on these panels, but not WS junction.

Paul