GP 38 SLSF 633, Enid Negative Collection

[meteor910]

SLSF 633, EMD GP38AC, 2000HP, delivered February, 1971

Attached are three pics from my "Enid' negative collection of SLSF 633, the class unit (first unit) of the long line of Frisco GP38/GP38-2 locomotives. I believe it is the case that the Frisco had more GP38/38-2's than any road but Conrail.

The GP38 proved to be a very versitile, reliable locomotive for the Frisco. They were seen system-wide in almost any use. The only thing they weren't very good at was going very fast under load.

The pics give you good views of the Leslie five-chime horn, the nose gyra-light, the cab roof beacon, the m/u and brake hoses, the cab sunshades, w/s wipers, safety lettering, class light detail, speed recorder, drop step, etc. The Atlas GP38 model is a real good example in HO, and all these detail parts are readily available to be hung on it!

Ken

[Iantha_Branch]

Those are some good pictures. I have one of the Atlas models, super detailed by our very own Bob Wintle, and I must say it look's exactly like your picture, except for the #636 part. :p

[meteor910]

SLSF 649, EMD GP38AC, 2000 HP
SLSF 650, EMD GP38AC, 2000 HP
SLSF 651, EMD GP38AC, 2000 HP
SLSF 660, EMD GP38AC, 2000 HP (2 pics)

Here are five more pics of the Frisco "original" GP38's, the GP38AC's - SLSF 633-662, delivered in 1971. These are from my "Enid" negative collection.

There is some good close-in detail evident on the 651 and 660 pics. Go for it with the Atlas HO model (SLSF 636 & 638), using these and the earlier GP38AC postings above of 633 as guides.

This was a fine locomotive for the Frisco, and the Atlas is a fine model of it.

Ken

[rcmck]

Could someone share some light regarding the Frisco herald on the nose of 651 (upper right hand pic) ??

As a young man, I recall seeing (I believe) the SD-45's with the Frisco herald on the nose, but not on the Geeps. As I look at the other pics, those units don't have the herald either.

If anyone has an explanation, I bet that I'm about to learn something new about the Frisco, which is why I enjoy this group and the web-site.

Thanks - Bob

[meteor910]

Bob - I'll give a try to answer your question.

One of the reasons the Frisco moved to the red/orange & white paint scheme on its diesels in the mid-1960's was to improve the visability of the locomotives when approaching crossings, in congested areas and in yards, etc.

I am speculating, but someone probably had the idea visibility would be even better if the nose of the locomotive was adorned with more contrasting red/orange & white. We know two different schemes were tried - red/orange diagonal stripes across the white area of the nose (GP7's, GP35's) and a red/orange coonskin herald in the white section of the nose (GP38AC's, SD45's). Only a few units received these two treatments. The stripes and heralds didn't weather well, so the idea was eventually dropped.

I don't know the specific unit numbers that received the stripes/heralds - obviously SLSF 651 is one of them.

Anybody else have any more information on this question?

Ken

[rcmck]

Thanks for answering this Ken!

Bob

[bob_wintle]

I too was unaware that any of the 38's had these on their nose, but you can bet there will be one of them on my layout before too long.
Bob Wintle

[meteor910]

The 1980 Frisco calendar had this pic of GP38-2 SLSF 460 on it, showing a coonskin herald on the nose.

I think this was a fake - with the herald "photoshopped" on (or whatever they did in 1980 to modify pics). I have several pics of 460, and there is no evidence it, or any of the 38-2's, carried a nose herald. Plus, the herald doesn't look like it is oriented correctly on this pic.

I've also looked at my pics of the GP38AC's. It may be that SLSF 651 was the one and only 38AC to carry a nose herald.

Ken

[Sirfoldalot]

Plus, the herald doesn't look like it is oriented correctly on this pic.

Ken

Ken .. You may be correct ... but the coonskin is centered very well. (I blew it up 1000%, if it's a fake, its very well done.)

I would suspect that it was a decal, or sticker, that was put on for the shoot - then stolen - or removed.

My other question would be: Is it a photograph, or is it an artist reproduction, which could have been "touched up".

[meteor910]

Armed with a strong adult libation, I clicked through all my digital pics of Frisco SD45's tonight. I have pics of each Frisco SD45, but not necessarily pics of each SD45 in every paint scheme it ever wore.

Following is a list of the Frisco SD45's I can confirm wore a coonskin herald on its nose for at least a portion of its Frisco service:

SLSF 911
SLSF 912
SLSF 915

Ken

[pensive]

Marre/Sommers Frisco in Color states on page 115 "Of all the Frisco orange and white road-switchers, only four carried nose-mounted heralds: SD45's 911, 912 and 915 plus GP38AC 651. These were applied during repaintings or repairs, but never spread to the entire roster." There had to be more than that though. Looking through copies of All Aboard I found a picture of a U-boat with a nose herald.

Rich

[rcmck]

Thank you Rich and Ken!

A hearty round of applause for your research! With the U-Boat bearing the nose herald, it sounds like the investigation continues.

Bob

[meteor910]

An update to my posting above about the pic of GP38-2 SLSF 460 with an apparent nose coonskin herald which appeared on the Frisco 1980 calendar .....

The pic attached is the same pic, used on the cover of the 1967 Frisco annual report. No coonskin, so the 1980 calendar pic had it dubbed on.

Ken

ps - It's actually not the same pic, but taken a second later as 460 is fully on the bridge in the annual report cover pic, while it is just entering the bridge in the calendar pic.

[meteor910]

It does help if I actually do attach the pic I am talking about in a posting!

Sorry

K

[rcmck]

This is a very nice shot - does anyone know where this photo was taken?

[pensive]

Attached is yet another variation of the PR shots that Ken has posted, this one for the June-July 1977 edition of all aboard. It appears to be taken at the same instant as the calender shot (the shadows in the ballast appear identical) but at a lower angle (only the tops of the covered hoppers in the train show). Perhaps two cameras were conected to fire at the same time but one was loaded with color film and the other black and white as the cover of the magazine was black and white. The coonskin is also missing in this shot.

The location was listed on the inside cover, but I didn't write it down or copy it. I recall that it was close to the Missouri-Arkansas border probably on the Springfield to Memphis line.

Rich

[Iantha_Branch]

I'm not sure about the picture from 1980. Yall say it's fake but it may not be... I pulled the picture up in a new tab and looked at it. I notived the dirt had been rubbed away from the coonskin. I don't know about the entering thing, but here is my theory: They borrowed 460 for the picture. They wiped away the dirt from the face and slapped the decal on. They took the picture and then maybe took it off? The only thing that still has me is the fact that the nose and cab are dirty (except for the coonskin) but the sides are shinny. Any other thoughts?

[klrwhizkid]

Regarding the two pictures of 460 on the bridge, the picture printed in black and white was taken slightly before the color print. Look closely at the position of the locomotive in both pictures. Two cameras, two positions, two points in time.

[FriscoFriend]

Many of us living here in Kansas were well acquainted with the late railfan and photographer from Larned Lee Burgland. He roamed all over central Kansas and at his unfortunate early pasing of a heart attack in his 50's had amassed a massive collection of slides and negatives of locomotives, rolling stock, and structures.
While on my job I remember running into him one day at Taylor's Toys in Great Bend after he had just completed chasing the very elusive and seldom used Santa Fe Rotary Snowplow that had been dispatched from KC to clear 5' snow drifts blocking a rural branch line. Anyway, Lee had devised a contraption (bracket of sorts) that had two Nikon SLR's mounted on it vertically about a foot apart. I can only assume that one had slide film in it and the other either B&W or color negative film. The previous posts in this thread lead me to believe that this photographer may have had a similar device.

[pensive]

Keith, you're correct in stating that position of the train on the bridge proves the Annual Report shot was taken after the all aboard shot, however I was comparing the all aboard shot to the calender shot, the one with the coonskin on the nose. The train appears to be in the same position but, now that I think of it, may not have been taken at the same time.

I've taken many pictures of trains over the years and in addition to all the variables inherent in photography, one tries to capture a moving object. We're thinking of this from a railfan perspective, but the photographer in this case has the approval of management, the operating department, and the dispatcher. So I think that the train was stopped at a predetermined point so the photographer took as many photos as he wished, the train moved up a few feet, more pictures taken and then sent on its way. I don't think much was left to chance in this case since these photographs showed up on many inhouse publications.

You're right that black and white prints can be made from color negatives. One camera could have taken all these pictures.

Rich

[pensive]

I've taken another look at the June-July 1977 issue of all aboard and copied part of the cover description: "Deep in the heart of the beutiful Ozarks, Train OBX moves across Trace Creek alongside Cold Springs located some three miles south of Thayer, just across the Missouri-Arkansas line."

Rich

[bob_wintle]

Guys:
If anyone has anymore pictures of GP38 651 please post them. I am looking for photos of both sides and especially the trucks. Thanks in advance
Bob Wintle

[meteor910]

Bob -

SLSF 651 was a hard one to catch apparently. I have some 8000+ pics of Frisco locomotives & rolling stock on file, and the Enid negative shot I posted of 651 is the best I have. I have one other 651, but it is a long distance head-on action shot and you can't see anything. I don't know whose pic it is or I'd post it.

Along with the 651 "Enid" pic posting was a right-side shot of SLSF 649 and a left-side shot of SLSF 650. Those are likey very good indications of what 651 looked like on each side as they were all sisters delivered together late February/early March 1971. Of course, only 651 carried the nose coonskin herald, applied some time after its delivery.

Will keep looking for the elusive SLSF 651! I wonder why it is so hard to find? - usually there are multiple pics of the very common Frisco "38's".

Ken

[bob_wintle]

Ken:
I googled it and found out that it was wrecked in 1974 and scrapped and according to the notes I saw, photos of it are quite rare. I am specifically looking for pictures of it so that I may determine if it had ever had any of it's journal boxes replaced. Seeing as how it was only on the railroad 3 years or so, it may have had it's original journal boxes. I am also looking to add details that it may have had. Thanks for the help.
Bob Wintle

[meteor910]

El Bob Oh -

Yep, you are correct. Per Lou Marre's "FDP", SLSF 651 was wrecked, along with SLSF 506, on 9/1/74 (only three years old) at Mustang, OK. It was scrapped 10/8/74, so the damage must have been severe. GP7 SLSF 506 was also trashed.

What would we do without "FDP"?

Does anybody have anything describing that accident?

Ken

[mark]

Ken,

Please see this link to a prior post on the Mustang, OK head on: http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?t=1806&highlight=mustang

Hope this helps.

Thanks!

Mark

[meteor910]

Here's another pic of Frisco GP7 SLSF 506. This is the unit also involved in the serious wreck in Mustang, OK with SLSF 651. Both units were totalled.

The 506 pic is from my "Enid" negative collection.

Ken