Trains 103 & 104

[myopiceagle]

I'm attempting to gather information on passenger trains 103 & 104, besides the timetables that list them, I haven't had any further luck. I'm trying to find any pictures or references to the make-up of the trains themselves. Also, is there any documentation or pictures of 'mixed' trains on this sub? Thanks for any tips or leads!

[TAG1014]

I have a couple of photos of tr.104 ca. 1953. I'll have to dig them up. 103-104 was a KC-Springfield local combined with tr. 117-118 at Ft. Scott. Typical four-car consist was E-8 (or passenger GP-7)/RPO-baggage/baggage/coach/second coach. All heavyweight--A neat "pike-size" passenger train. Stay tuned.

Tom

PS: Trains 103-104 (un-named local) and trains 101-102 ("The Sunnyland") covered the KC-Memphis route for the years (1950-55, I believe??) which was the Sunnyland's route both before and after that period. Trains 101-102 during that period was a three-car local usually handled by an FP-7. 101 and 102 were called the Sunnyland, but the Sunnyland name was also used a Memphis-Birmingham train and it's St.Louis-Memphis connection.

[TAG1014]

Here are some photos taken at the Springfield depot in December 1953. At left: SLSF E-8 2016 "Citation." Middle: Side view of engine showing racehorse name. Right: tr.104 leaving. The all heavyweight consist that day:
--E-8 2016
--Arch Roof RPO-bagggage (RPO "apartment" ahead)
--Arch Roof Baggage
--Arch Roof Coach
--Monitor Roof Coach (w/ducts)

Train # 104 departed Springfield daily 2:20 PM. This was the typical consist--sometimes the engine would be a GP-7.

[pkcase]

Was 103 & 104 known as the Will Rogers?

[TAG1014]

103 and 104 were unnamed locals between Springfield and Kansas City. The train was actually combined (104) and divided (103) AT Fort Scott with the Firefly (tr. 117-118) which ran between KC and Tulsa. The Will Rogers (tr. 3-4) ran between St. Louis and Oklahoma City.

Tom

[pkcase]

Thanks for the info.

PK

[Iantha_Branch]

I finally found the tread I was looking for.

note I would like to add....

According to the 1952 time table I have, Trains 103 (the southbound (no name) local) and 104 (northbound local) only ran from Springfield to Ft. Scott.

It also says that the Sunnyland was trains 105 & 106, both on the Ash Grove, and Kansas City subs.

I do have one question though. When would they have stopped using steam on 103 and 104?

[TAG1014]

Trains 105 and 106 were the Kansas City-Florida Special. During the period when there were trains 103 and 104 (About 1950-55), There was also a Springfield-Memphis local. That train was numbered 101 and 102 and called the Sunnyland. The Sunnyland name was used as well as on trains 107-108 which was a Memphis-Birmingham train at that time. Before 1950 and after 1955, the Sunnyland was numbered 107 and 108 and ran all the way from Kansas City to Birmingham. Trains 103 and 104 were advertised as Springfeild-KC trains, but they only actually carried a Springfield-KC coach.

Tom

[meteor910]

The Sunnyland train name was used all over the system for trains heading down to "the sun". Trains 807-107 and 108-808 were the St Louis - Memphis sections, which ran down and up the River Division.

The times I saw it (early 1960's), it had one Racehorse E-unit, a few head end cars, and one/two coaches.

Ken

[klrwhizkid]

Just for more clarification, the Sunnyland was the name of several trains that made the connection to the Sunnyland at Memphis. In addition to the trains mentioned in this post, trains 107, 807 and 108, 808 on the River Division between St Louis and Memphis were also known as the Sunnyland.

From Memphis southward, the Sunnyland continued on to Birmingham and ultimately Pensacola, FL.

[yardmaster]

For further reference:

(a) A link to some information on "Sunnyland,"Trains 107/108:

http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?t=1881

(b) A link to Ken McElreath's "Observations" column from the FMIG Newsletters on "Sunnyland,"Trains 807/808:

http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?t=1633

I don't know of a separate write-up on 103/104 by Ken in the earlier newsletters; I also don't see anything on the site here. This may be a good candidate for a "Meteor" article?

Best Regards,

[TAG1014]

"Generally speaking," the Sunnyland was a Kansas City-Birmingham train, with a St. Louis-Memphis section and ocacasional variations on the theme.

Tom

[myopiceagle]

I do have one question though. When would they have stopped using steam on 103 and 104?


According to my information, on Sept. 20, 1951 there were still at least two active passenger locomotives in the Northern division. So, while there is the possibility that these two trains could have been headed by steam this late in the dieslization process, it is more likely that E units were the regular power at this point. By the end of 1951, these remaining steam locomotives were taken off the active roster.

[Iantha_Branch]

What steam locomotives are they?
My time table (38 B, effective September 28, 1952) has steamers 1500,1501,1516,1519,1522,1524-1527,1529,4200-4219,4500-4524 all listed with tonnage class, bridge class and actual weight. It also lists speed restrictions for KC and AG subs and it only has diesels for pass service (70 mph), but it lists 55 mph on diesel powered freight and 50 mph on steam powered freight.

[Karl]

On Sept 20, 1951, the active psgr locomotives on the Northern Div were the 1025, the 1062, and 1522. The 1522 was in local freight service between Ft Scott and Afton. It's quite possible that 103/104 were being powered by the 1062.


By Sept 28, 1952, steam on the Frisco was dead, and the locomotives listed in ETT 38B were in storage to protect the Korea War effort