Passenger Operations into Dallas/Ft Worth

[gbmott]

Folks:

I'm copying below a thread copied from the Passenger Car List on Yahoo. I feel certain that there are people here than can help Jim out.

"Probably due to my complete unfamiliarity with the scope of pre-WW2 Frisco
operations in the Dallas - Ft. Worth area, I still don't get it [refers to other thread].

The Official Guide of Feb. 1938 table #36 shows a line between Sherman
and Irving with the boldface type "No Passenger Service". Yet table 12
shows four passenger trains a day, 2 northward and 2 southward,
serving separately Dallas and Fort Worth. The reference mark against
the stations in both Dallas and Ft. Worth says MKT station used. Now
the MKT used the T&P station in Ft. Worth and everybody used the Union
Depot in Dallas. So that doesn't leave us much further along as far as
information goes.

There is no doubt that the Frisco passenger trains served Dallas in
1938. We have a picture of one of them broken down on what is probably
the wye at the Union Depot. Question is, how did it get there and,
when it's fixed and ready to move, what tracks does it take to get
back to South Irving or Sherman or Denison.

I'd sure like to solve this puzzle!

Jim Warsher"

Thanks, Frisco folks -- Gordon

[JimVT]

To Gordon Mott & others,

It's starting to look like this question is going to come up a cypher. Either nobody knows or they know and aren't saying. It just strikes me as odd that, having spent a lifetime in railroading, I can't get a straightforward answer to a simple question. At least I learned that the gas-electrics on the SL-SF were called Bullmooses. Come to think of it, they look like bull mooses. Maybe this is just the wrong crowd to be asking questions about historic operations.

Jim Warsher
--

[qaprr]

Frisco Passenger Trains operated Tulsa to Sherman to Irving and then over the CRI&P Dallas to Ft. Worth. Sometimes splitting at Sherman with a Train to Dallas and a Train to Ft. Worth, other times running to Dallas and then Ft. Worth. At least one train terminated at Dallas. In 1932, Frisco and MKT entered into a contract to operate joint passenger train service between Tulsa, and Dallas – Ft. Worth via Frisco Lines to Denison thence MKT Lines to Dallas or Ft. Worth with a stub via Frisco Lines from Denison to Irving which was later cut back to Sherman. This agreement lasted until about August of 1944 at which time the Frisco again operated Passenger Trains Tulsa to Irving to Dallas to Ft Worth utilizing the CRI&P between Dallas and Ft. Worth. The Frisco had a 99 year lease on the Irving to Carrolton segment from the CRI&P and for all practical purposes operated this segment as if it were owned; performing all required maintenance, etc. The Frisco operated via trackage rights along with the FW&D over the CRIP between Dallas and Ft. Worth. The Frisco owned and maintained substantial Tracks and Facilities in Ft. Worth. Frisco also at various times operated Passenger Trains joint with the ATSF between Paris and Dallas and of course the Texas Special and Bluebonnet with the MKT.
QAPRR

[JimVT]

That's the stuff! Thanks so much. I appreciate your taking the trouble to reply. Just about wraps it up.

Jim Warsher
--

[doug brown]

I am trying to establish a contact with anyone who has records of lines aquired by Frisco in 1907 and what happened to their business cars. Doug Brown

[TAG1014]

Type in "business cars names and numbers" in search. There's a long thread with info and photos.

Tom

[urogers]

I worked as a switchman at Dallas union station. Hired out In January 1951. The yard engine was called the seven spot. The day light Yardmaster was H.Young. In ref to the Y at Union Station it would hold seven cars and then we had to run the Y with the engine. I do not remember at any time of a derailment if a FriscoTrain. The worst derailment was directly by the South Tower and the cause was the towerman lined the switch under the train by water street track. The train was a boy scout special. The towerman was pulled out of service for a year. If I recall correctly we had 32 trains into UT each day. We had the round house near Cadiz Street and then about seven tracks in the coach yard. Eleven tracks in the terminal not counting the three tracks for Railway Express near the power house. By the Norh Tower there was three tracks for all of the business cars. I left UT in 1957 and after militay tour in Germany went to freight service in 1959 for the SLSF and retired from the BNSF in 1994. Came out of retirement in 2000 and worked as a Conductor for Herzog Corp. on the Texas Railway Express between Ft Worth and Dallas until October 2003. I now live about two miles from the Dallas Cowboy stadium in Arlington. One other rail that I worked for that was neat was the Great Southwest Railroad by Six Flags Over Texas and we had eleven miles of track. Angus Wynn was the owner.

[urogers]

The FriscoTrains ran on the Rock Island beween Dallas and Irving.