Frisco Pullman operations

[arkrail]

Frisco operated streamlined 6 section-6 roomette-4 double bedroom cars on the Kansas City-Florida Special from mid-November 1959 until about April 1960 -- a winter season consist expansion that had used heavyweight cars in previous years. Since Frisco had no cars of this type, does anyone have any train consists from dispatcher sheets, conductor time books, or Pullman Company assignment sheets which might be used to identify the specific cars which were assigned to this service?

This was during the time that Frisco seemed to be making a concerted effort to end all heavyweight sleeping car assignments. Heavyweight Frisco cars were available, but the choice was made to instead use lightweight cars obtained from elsewhere or from the Pullman pool.

Thanks!

Bill Pollard

[pbender]

Just a guess here, but I wouldn't be surprised if the cars came from the Southern, Which partnered with the Frisco on the KCFS.

Paul

[arkrail]

That's a good guess, considering the Frisco-Southern partnership with this train. However, I cannot find evidence of Southern owning any 6-6-4 cars? I don't have a complete Southern roster however... did they own a few cars of this configuration?

Bill

[TAG1014]

Bill--I have Morning Sun's SR Guide To Freight & Passenger Equipment and there doesn't seem to be any 6-6-4's in there. FYI.

Tom

[yardmaster]

I think Paul's guess is pretty good. I'll throw in an an educated guess for the Seaboard Air Line - wanting to think that I'd somewhere read that Jacksonville, FL sleepers were handed off to the SAL?

I checked Maiken's Night Trains: The Pullman System in the Golden Years of American Rail Travel, to which our own Ken McElreath is listed in the credits! It chronicles Pullman-carrying trains in early 1952 - which is off base for the timeframe Bill has listedn - but only lists SOU sleeprs for #105.

Maybe others can either validate or debunk the SAL hypothesis.

Rick McClellan, if you are out there: my kudos to your 'Hawks. There's much sadness in Columbia, MO tonight, but man, what a game!

Best Regards,

[gbmott]

SOU is a good guess, but they owned no 6-6-4's, nor did anyone else operating through Jacksonville (I assume this was a KC-Jax assignment). I'd be more inclined to think they were somehow connected with KC, either from a connection there or coming from the Pullman pool. A pure SWAG would be the UP who operated 6-6-4's into KC on both the City of St. Louis and the Portland Rose. It's possible that the SLSF leased cars from the IC, who had 6-6-4's, but it is also entirely possible that the Frisco just went to Pullman and got cars from the pool in which case they could have come from anyone. Sure wish someone had a couple of consists from this period!

Gordon

[yardmaster]

Just remembered that there is some 1957 consist information at the Memphis terminal, courtesy Ken McElreath...

http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?t=1752&highlight=Memphis

[Karl]

During the holiday weekend, I swapped emails with FMIG'er, Curt Ayers, now retired to Thailand. Curt grew-up in Holly Springs, and he remembers smooth-sided, Pennsy Pullmans on 105/106. Unfortunately, his documentaion is in Mississippi. I am away from my documents as well. Did the PRR have 6-6-4 cars?

[gbmott]

Regrettably no, to the best of my knowledge.

Gordon