Columbus, Kansas

[bob_wintle]

Does anyone have a track diagram of Columbus around the 1960's or 1970's time frame. I have scratchbuilt the triple crossing and want to include it on a Freemo module but dod not have any information. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
Bob Wintle
Parsons, Ks.

[Karl]

I have a picture of the interlocker posted on the site too; I'll try to get that link in a moment.

[railroadguy65]

Hi Bob

This what I have for Columbus, KS - Sanborn maps from 1900- 1928

and google maps 2009

RRG65 :)

[railroadguy65]

:)
Columbus KS today (2009)

I took several shots of the three way interlocking track with SLSF 1701 Caboose & the site where the former freight depot was.

I then went further north of there on N. Railroad Ave. Looking west across the tracks is the Frisco-BNSF Employee Station and on a wye just north of the station, were two diesels with a BN12583 caboose ( Frisco#?)

[bob_wintle]

While not an exact match in degree of crossing, here is a picture of an HO scale version that I have built for a future Freemo module.

[yardmaster]

Wow, nice work Bob. I know who to call within a day's drive when I'm ready to take a stab at handlaying!

[TAG1014]

Might be a good question for Bob Wintle: Bob what were the three different (Routes, RR lines, branches etc.) that went through that crossing? Two Frisco lines and one Katy, right? Or something else?

Thanks, Tom

[Iantha_Branch]

I remember seeing Bob's triple diamond crossing at the convention. Unfortunately I can't remember all the towns but here it goes: The 2 tracks that come to make a 90 degree are frisco, the one coming in at a 45 degree are Katy. I remember 2 towns: On the left side of the Katy line was Parsons, and then on the right side of the Frisco was Carthage. Well that's what I remember. Bob, can you fill us in?

[pbender]

Might be a good question for Bob Wintle: Bob what were the three different (Routes, RR lines, branches etc.) that went through that crossing? Two Frisco lines and one Katy, right? Or something else?


The track diagrams Karl posted shows the two Frisco lines are the Afton sub between Kansas City and Afton,OK and the Carthage Sub between Monett,MO and Ellingsworth,KS.

The track diagrams show an MKT line, but they do not show where the line went.

Paul

[mvtelegrapher]

The roughly north/south Frisco line is the Afton Sub. from Fort Scott (Edwards), Kansas to Afton, Oklahoma. East/West line is the Frisco Carthage Sub. from Pierce City, Missouri to Neodesha, Kansas and the Northwest/Southeast line is the Katy Joplin Sub. from Labette, Kansas to Joplin, Missouri.

John Chambers

[bob_wintle]

John got it right but he cheated, he has all the maps. My crossing while a triple crossing is not quite the correct angle for the exact turnout but I cheated and used a 90 degree template that I drew a 45 degree crossing onto. Looking at the real thing those are not the exact angles but they are close enough for me. It took me two tries to get one to work really well. I used an old carpenters trick to build them and it worked really well. I notched the tops of one rail and the bottom of the rail that crossed it before soldering. When completed I used a Dremel tool to cut the electrical gaps. Doing it this way allowed all the rails to stay level with each other with no bumps. Scratchbuilding track can be addicting.
Bob Wintle

[friscorr]

An overhead view from the FriscoKD 5.0:
http://www.frisco.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=9587&stc=1&d=1259805088

[Karl]

The interlocker at Columbus.

http://www.frisco.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=1181&d=1129506817

[bob_wintle]

If any one has other views of this building please post them. I would love to model it.
Bob Wintle

[TAG1014]

Thanks for the info and maps guys. That welded crossing track piece would make a nice yard sculpture. Better than a lawn jockey or pink flamingoes!!

Tom

[TAG1014]

The more I look at this thread and all the information about this junction (And the trackwork itself), the more I'm facinated! I really don't know how I could possibly incorporate this crossing in my layout plans, but it's sure a great thing to save and file away just in case...

Tom

PS: Does anyone know if there were ever wrecks or derailments at this junction? Also what were the RR speed restrictions at this location? Thanks.

[Karl]

The track charts posted on this thread show a 20 mph limit through Columbus.



Also what were the RR speed restrictions at this location? Thanks.

[Iantha_Branch]

Wouldn't be even better if the NEO line went though that too? Then it would be a quadruple Diamond!!! I wonder if that is even possible.

[bob_wintle]

Tom to answer your question, I am not aware of any derailments or wrecks at the crossing itself and I am not saying none ever happened. I do know that there was a wreck about a mile to the west of it on the line that went to Oswego. A Frisco train was eastbound and stopped on the main jsut to the west edge of Columbus. An MKT train being pulled by MKT GP 40 #222 rearended the Frisco Caboose killing the conductor. There are many stories as to what actually caused the accident including one that speculated that the conducter of the Frisco train had died due to a heart attack before the incident. I have never really heard an official report, maybe someone on here has one.
Ethan, I have never heard of a quadrupile crossing but I know that the tripe crossing in Columbus was the only one in the United States and there was only one other in the entire world. That one I believe was in Europe. I have heard MOW guys from both the Frisco and the Katy talk about what a maintenence nightmare the crossing was so I would guess a qudrupile one would have been even worse.
Bob Wintle

[Iantha_Branch]

Actually Bob, there are 3. One in Columbus (no longer in operation), one in Ohio some were in operation, and one in Germany and I'm not sure if it's in use or not.

[bob_wintle]

Ethan:
I never heard of the one in Ohio. I forgot about the one that was listed on the Plaque that is shown earlier in this post. According to the Plaque the one in Germany was destroyed in the war and the One in Pennsylvania was removed and the one in Columbus is the only one that remains. I took pictures of the one in Columbus as well as the Plaque but had forgotten. That is what happens when one gets older.
Bob

[Iantha_Branch]

When I visited Carona this summer someone told me about it and there was only 3 in the world. HE didn't say anything about the one in Germany being destroyed or the one in Pennsylvania. So I guess there are only 2 examples left.

[bob_wintle]

No the only one that remains or that is left is the one in Columbus, the rest are gone. Scroll up and look at the Photograph earlier in this thread to read about it.
Bob

[Iantha_Branch]

Maybe the ohio dimond isn't a triple one like I think it is. I did a search on Fostoria OH on Google maps and found that it is a North south track crossing 2 sets of eat west tracks. here is a link http://maps.google.com/maps?sourceid=navclient&rlz=1T4GFRE_enUS329US329&q=fostoria+ohio&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Fostoria,+OH&gl=us&ei=1tIZS8WLAYj0MZTZ1ewC&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CA0Q8gEwAA

[bob_wintle]

Now that is cool. It appears to be two double track mains crossing each other. I am not sure what the correct terminology would be for it. I wonder if it would be a double double crossing. Pretty cool though.
Bob

[Sirfoldalot]

Are you guys forgetting about this one (no longer in operation now)?

http://www.bronx-terminal.com/?cat=6

[bob_wintle]

WOW! Did you build it? That is a work of art. Why is it no longer in service? I would have loved to worked that one. Too Cool!
Bob

[Iantha_Branch]

Holy Cow!!! That is a piece of art!!!! How would they build the frogs over the points?

[Sirfoldalot]

Not In my wildest dreams could I have built that (wish,wish). That is just one part of the CNJ Terminal shown in the link provided. The "terminal" is a work of art and complexity. You can spend a couple hours just looking and reading about the construction.

In my younger, more patient, steady hands, and better eyesight days - I built quite a bit of hand laid track and switches for my own layout, an HO club, and an O club. Probably one of the things that helped cause burnout. Had a Kayde Spiker that I just sold last year (figured I would not be using it anymore ... nuther mistake).

[john]

I guess I just don't get it. I can see why something like the three way crossing would be neat to model, but in the "real" world why, except cases of EXTREME space limitations, would you create that kind of complexity when you could simply locate one of the tracks "offset" a few feet as was done in Fort Smith with the SF junction? (I assume this is was more the "norm".)

great photo on Mike's website at:

http://condrenrails.com/FSVB/Junctions/SF-Jct.htm

[klrwhizkid]

The real pros can step in if my assessment is wrong, but by combining all three at one point, there is only one interlocking control needed for any of the three railroads. If the crossings are offset so only any two railroads cross at one point, then each railroad would have to worry about two interlocking control points just "feet" apart.

[mvtelegrapher]

Bob King, a friend of mine, has done some research on the three way diamond at Columbus and has looked at some of the Frisco drawings that Watco has of Columbus and the conclusion Bob has come too from reading through newspaper accounts is that the Katy originally platted a right-of-way through Columbus around four blocks west of the triple diamond and this would have required two different crossings of the Frisco lines in town. The Frisco did not want two crossings and since their lines were already built they told the Katy where they would allow a crossing of the Frisco and that the Katy would have to pay for the construction and the maintenance of it. The Frisco was hoping that since this was going to be and expensive piece of trackwork the Katy would not want to build it and and would give up their extension to Joplin. It didn't work and the Katy went ahead and built the three way crossing and extended their line to Joplin.

John Chambers

[FRISCO4503]

Hello everyone! I just wanted everyone to know, I have got the bug again thanks to this thread and I am going to attempt building the triple diamond in Columbus! After I am done and it passes all the inspections necessary to make it to where it is good to run trains on (this is my first attempt at something like this) I am going to start redesigning my track plan to make a place to put it and run trains over it!

Bob and Ian! As far as the location in Ohio, This is listed as a double diamond. I used to work for CSX on the Baltimore Service Lane as it was called. I still have alot of my old time tables. I asked my old boss Ed Cindric what this was called and he looked it up in the time table and figured I would let you all know! It is a neat location on the CSX, but from what Ed told me, it is also a dangerous location. Any little thing goes wrong, maintenance wise or anything and it is all the ingredience needed for disaster.

[TAG1014]

More questions about the interesting junction at Coumbus. This is the 1905 map previously posted and I was wondering where the RR station(s) was/were located? And which segment of land around the junction was the tower located in? Down in the middle of the map on one side of the tracks there is lettering: "StL & SF RR" and "M-K & T RR depo" on the other side. Not clear to me if it was a joint station or not??

Thanks, Tom

[Friscotony]

I photgraphed the Columbus depot in 1978 and as I recall, it was located near the diamond and not in closer to your map location. However, it may not have been the original depot as the floor plan I have for that one was build in 1888. It also shows a seperate baggage and a seperate express building and the one I photographed does not have those elements.

[mark]

Tom,

It does not appear that there was ever a joint agency depot at Columbus.

The plans earlier in this post indicate a Frisco depot dating from at least 1888 and freight house from 1872. The passenger depot appears to have always been near the diamond crossing. Sanborn maps of the city show the freight house at 411 East Maple Street.

The current Frisco depot is located in the southwest quadrant of the diamond crossing, north of East Oak Street. This is within the boundary of the southwest interchange or connecting track and between the Afton and Carthage Subdivisions mains. This location seems logical to service both Frisco lines at the crossing.

The Sanborn maps for Columbus indicate the Missouri, Kansas and Texas (MKT) depot was located on the east side of their Joplin Branch. Their depot address was 433 East Maple Street. This places the Katy depot 4 blocks south and east across both line's tracks of the Frisco's depot.

Hope this helps.

Thanks!

Mark

[TAG1014]

Thanks.

Tom

[1143]

I think that the passenger depot was south of maple street where the caboose and three way crossing is on display.

[mark]

David,

Sanborn maps place both the Frisco freight house and the Katy depot north of East Maple Street and south of East Walnut Street.

Hope this helps.

Thanks!

Mark

[1143]

I went to the Cherokee County Historical Society and did some research on the Frisco depot at Columbus. I could not find the exact date that it was built but found an article that said it would be built at a location south of Maple street and west of the tracks. The freight house would be built north of Maple. I could not find out where it was located before. The article was dated July 13, 1905.
The next information was dated Oct.17, 1958 and stated that in order to consolidate their services the Columbus Frisco passenger station was moved to a sight four blocks north and would be placed in the southwest corner of the interlocker. The freight depot would be consolidated into the passenger depot eventually. The signal tower would also be abandoned and the equipment be placed in the depot so that fewer employees would be needed. The depot was moved by a house mover. In April of 1982 the depot was once again loaded on a truck and moved seven miles south of Columbus and is now a residence. The MKT had their own depot

[rjthomas909]

The website Kansas Memory (http://www.kansasmemory.org (http://www.kansasmemory.org/)) contains several excellent photos from Southeastern Kansas.

The SLSF Columbus Depot can be found at: http://www.kansasmemory.org/item/215365 and the tower pictured earlier in this thread is also shown (http://www.kansasmemory.org/item/215367). Dates are mid-to-late 1950s. One depot (may be the MKT) can still be seen with the streetview of Google maps if you drive north off Maple just west of the grain elevator.

For a real treat, take a look at the photos from nearby Cherokee, Kansas showing the Frisco Station and Railyards between 1895 and 1905. (http://www.kansasmemory.org/item/220809). Not really categorized under "railroads" and found by accident.



Robert Thomas
A long way from Cherokee County