Frisco Operations in the 70's

[rghicks]

Hi,
I am in the process of designing a track plan for my new layout. I want to set the layout in 1978. I am in the process of gathering information of that year and era in order to help me set up staging & passing tracks etc. I am wanting to model the line from Springfield to Thayer and the line from Springfield to Monett with Springfield being in the middle the St. Louis and Kansas City lines will be represented with off-line staging as will Tennessee Yard and Cherokee yard. I know that the Frisco Operated several "HOT" trains most notable the QLA, CTB, and BTX. I have managed to obtain some information on those trains but I also know that they operated the #33 out of St. Louis. It ran to Cherokee but I don't know when it left, when it arrived at Springfield and proceeded to Monett. I'm sure there are some other trains from that time frame that I am needing help with but I don't know what they are at the moment. I have been searching everywhere trying to come up with ETT's from 1978 with schedules of trains in them. The latest ETT's that I have been able to come up with are from 1976. They help and I may have to change years but I really don't want to. If anyone knows where I can obtain this information or point me in the right direction I would really appreciate it.

Thanks
Greg

[yardmaster]

Greg -
I'll have to look when I get home, but I think I have some old ETTs from this era that might have some of the info you are pursuing. Most of my stuff is River Division specific, however, but I'm thinking I have something on the symbol trains you've mentioned. Perhaps others will come along with info in the meantime.

We'll be eager to hear updates on the research and to see details as the track plan comes along!

Best Regards,

Chris Abernathy
Columbia, MO (but temporarily in Las Vegas, NV for another few days)
(Modeling the Frisco's River Division in HO-Scale c. 1943)

[Karl]

I suspect that you have ETT 3A, Feb 1, 1976. This ETT was superseded by ETT 4, April 22, 1979. I believe that ETT number 4 was the last one issued by the Frisco before being acquired by the Barely Nuth'n'. The Springfield Sub and the Willow Springs Sub from the Number 4 ETT are shown below. I've also included a couple of pages from a Sep 1978 sales brocure, which might be helpful.

Max speed between SY and Monett was 55mph for all trains except for 32, 33, and QLA, which were allowed 60 mph

[rghicks]

Karl,

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!!!!!!
This is the kind of information I have been searching for. I've been searching on e-bay for months and months. I've even been down to MSU (I still call it SMSU) library, the Greene county library, and I've even tried Kalmbach's library. I was beginning to think that I was going to have to wing it. I hate to keep begging but if you have anything else from that era I would greatly appreciate it. I have been slowly trying to come up with information and filing it in a big box and sifting through it and planning what I can represent and not represent on my layout. I am wanting to make this an operations point to point layout but there is so much stuff and I can't fit it all into the space that I have available. I've only got a 19' x 26' room. I have more wants than space.

Thanks again I really appreciate it.

[yardmaster]

Thanks for sharing, Karl...great info!

Greg I did dig out River Division ETT #4 from 4-22-1979. It includes the Northern Division-Memphis Sub between Thayer and Tennessee Yard (for River Division trains running between Turrell and Tenn. Yard). Consequently, it does include CTB, QLA and BTX.

My apologies for the very poor scans. My scanner has seemed to develop a mind of its own. I'll try to troubleshoot and get better ones, if not the entire TT.

Best Regards,

[w3hodoug]

Greg, bravo. You are doing your homework for an exciting layout design. You'll need a LOT of staging. Springfield and that line to Thayer are/were busy places.

MMRs Ron Williams, Rick McClelland, and Charlie Dischinger have all done a lot of homework for you by concentrating on Springfield Yard and activities there. It's pretty much era independent, since some of those trains ran, with only minor time changes, for probably 75 years. Put as many ETTs together as you can find and just check one train, like 131. You'll find it was around after the BN merger.

Of course, you need the January 1981 issue of TRAINS with that excellent write up by Dan Overby, Pat Hiatte, and Steve Squibb about the activites at SY on 03-08-80, just two years after your era. Copies are available from Kalmbach. It covers pp 22-31, 57-58, & 60 if you order less than the entire issue.

ETT 44 09-01063 and 45 08-09-64 list 24 different train arrivals in Springfield, however four are passenger trains downtown, rather than through the north yard.

Charlie Dischinger shared a lot of his research for Ron's design with the FMIG back in 1993. Ron has since built the thing in Springfield and is having operating sessions. The neat thing about Charlie's material is that it including blocking assignments for each train. Also track assignments in SY. The bulk of the material appears on pp. 10-24 of FMIG LINES issue 109.

Scans are attached.

[w3hodoug]

Here are the final four pages. Doug
w3ho@aol.com

[rghicks]

Chris & Doug,

I want to thank you guys so much for the valuable information you have provided me with. Thank you for for sharing and helping me with my dream

Thanks
Greg

[yardmaster]

Karl - I found one thing interesting about your timetable - W.S. Jct. still shows. I had thought this was where the old south passenger main connected into the newer 50s-era line from Teed southward along US 65...but I thought the passenger main was abandoned in the 70s? Thanks in advance for pardoning my Springifled ignorance.

[pbender]

Karl - I found one thing interesting about your timetable - W.S. Jct. still shows. I had thought this was where the old south passenger main connected into the newer 50s-era line from Teed southward along US 65...but I thought the passenger main was abandoned in the 70s? Thanks in advance for pardoning my Springifled ignorance.

You're right about where it was located. From US65S, you can still see both right of ways coming together.

Incidentally, the last BNSF timetable I've seen (from 2004) lists WS as a station between Teed and Rogersville at MP 206.2. All that exists there is a pair of searchlight signals (well, they were still searchlight signals the last time I was home). I'm not sure if the signals were convereted to act as intermediate signals when the junction was removed, or if they are still CTC controlled. WS is also listed as the point where mainline crews changeradio frequencies.

Paul

[rghicks]

Just where is WS and teed suppose to be I'm in Springfield at least twice a week and I have to come right down 65 hwy (I live in Buffalo) so I could make a quick detour and check this out. I could take some pictures and if someone could walk me through it post them on here for people to look at. But I'm going to need something more specific than a mile post marker. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

I also have something else to ask. I want to include the Zenith factory on my layout and I was wondering what kind of cars they would be receiving and shipping on. I'm going to need something to put on my waybills and I would like for it to be as accurate as possible. Also does anyone know how often it was switched.

Thanks
Greg

[pbender]

Just where is WS and teed suppose to be I'm in Springfield at least twice a week and I have to come right down 65 hwy (I live in Buffalo) so I could make a quick detour and check this out. I could take some pictures and if someone could walk me through it post them on here for people to look at. But I'm going to need something more specific than a mile post marker. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

Teed is the junction on the west side of town between the line to St. Louis and the line to Memphis. It's between Kearny and Division and is fairly accessable via roadways. (you can see it from US65, but it's more clearly visible from Packer RD, which connects Kearny and Division).
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=Springfield,MO&ie=UTF8&ll=37.232242,-93.235302&spn=0.007551,0.014591&t=k&z=16&om=1

WS is located south of Cheery St. The junction is more or less where US65 crosses the mainline to Memphis.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=Springfield,MO&ie=UTF8&ll=37.200253,-93.229058&spn=0.007554,0.014591&t=k&z=16&om=1

The links above are to googlemaps pages which show the two locations.

Paul

[rghicks]

Paul,

Thanks I'll see if I can get by there and get a shot or two of those areas.
Thanks
Greg

[rghicks]

These are some pictures that I took today at Teed. This is where the Frisco rerouted the line that went to Memphis in the 60's. These pictures are looking east and west.