Advance Sections

[yardmaster]

Karl's post from earlier on X5226N at Hoxie (see http://www.frisco.org/vb/showpost.php?p=11624&postcount=1) noted some interesting operational information:

"The Frisco would not hold a train for its scheduled departure time, if enough tonnage was ready to roll. Such a train would leave as an "Advance Section". In this case perhaps this was Advance 134. Given that this was ABS territory, white lamps and white flags would be required."

Presumably these trains would be identified on Train Orders as such (e.g. "Advance 134"). If there were any following sections, how would they be listed? I would guess it would just be "Train 134" if it left on or after the advertised?

The white lamps/flags in ABS territory are interesting. I recall seeing some latter-day photos of scheduled trains on the River Division with white class lights.

Guess I need to take a closer look at the Rules of the Transportation Department. 8^)

Best Regards,

[slsfrr]

Speaking strictly for ABS and non signaled territory any train that ran on its schedule would not display marker lights, unless two sections were run. Then the first section would display green lights/flags and the 2nd section would run with out marker lights, or, with green lights/flags if a 3rd section, and so on. The only way a train could depart its initial terminal ahead of schedule would be as an extra or assume the schedule of an earlier train.

For example if QLA was early and Tulsa wanted to depart the train, QLA would run as an extra to OKC. It would still be QLA, but for operating authority it would be an extra. Advance trains would be the same. The advance train would run as an extra and the regular train (assuming there was tonnage for one) ran on schedule.

At Oklahoma City train #30 often departed carrying green signals. A 2nd #30 was run 2/4 hours later moving the empty auto racks, sluff, and what piggyback traffic was left. That way #30 was keep on schedule while all traffic was moved using both trains. Just the opposite of advance trains.

Jerome

[yardmaster]

Great information, Jerome; that helps a lot. Many thanks!

[slsfrr]

Chris,

You are welcome.

BTW, are you making any progress on your steam engine conversion?

Jerome

[yardmaster]

:rolleyes: Thanks for asking Jerome. Summer travel and business kept me busier than anticipated. A new styrene cab's nearly done and then it's a matter of adding a few final details and the Paint Shop.

If I can get my final detail parts in line I would love to ring in the new year with it ready-to-go.

[Highgreen]

I am new to this site but I can speak from my experience in the operating dept in the 1960s. Train QLA would run all the way to Quanah (and later to Avard) as QLA as far as the customer was concerned. This is the time we implemented the computer oriented tracing system that could be accessed by the customer(the most important person in the world---it is easy to forget) so what the dispatcher did was for operating convience. When it started out in Birmingham it was QLA---no question about it---but the dispatcher might have run an advanced section say from Memphis to Springfield using QLA's train number (I believe it might have been train 133 but I am forggy on the exact number) and run QLA extra---we did not care as long as the dispatcher got this hot shot over the road---high green all the way---and what fun it was to ride.


Speaking strictly for ABS and non signaled territory any train that ran on its schedule would not display marker lights, unless two sections were run. Then the first section would display green lights/flags and the 2nd section would run with out marker lights, or, with green lights/flags if a 3rd section, and so on. The only way a train could depart its initial terminal ahead of schedule would be as an extra or assume the schedule of an earlier train.

For example if QLA was early and Tulsa wanted to depart the train, QLA would run as an extra to OKC. It would still be QLA, but for operating authority it would be an extra. Advance trains would be the same. The advance train would run as an extra and the regular train (assuming there was tonnage for one) ran on schedule.

At Oklahoma City train #30 often departed carrying green signals. A 2nd #30 was run 2/4 hours later moving the empty auto racks, sluff, and what piggyback traffic was left. That way #30 was keep on schedule while all traffic was moved using both trains. Just the opposite of advance trains.

Jerome

[yardmaster]

I am new to this site but I can speak from my experience in the operating dept in the 1960s.

Highgreen, welcome aboard and many many thanks for sharing. The more true-life operations info we can document from Frisco Folks who were actually out there, the better we can preserve the SL-SF!

Thanks again,

[Karl]

The Frisco also lableled certain Advance Sections as "Stubs". If I remember correctly, if a train left its point of origin "early" it was labeled as an Advance Train. If a train left an intermediate point point early, it was called a Stub. For example, if train 131 had enough cars to leave before its scheduled time from KC, it would be known as Advance 131. On the other hand if Springfield had enough cars ready to roll before 131 reached that point, a 131 Stub could leave before 131 arrived from KC.

[Highgreen]

I worked in the operating dept from about 1964 to 1967 and don't recall the term "Stub"---one thing we did during this time is to do a lot of line-of-road set-outs of blocks----in other words block swaping at remote siding locations in order to keep as much away from yards as possible. Since we had to have cabooses in those days we would "double caboose" so the block could be set-out with a caboose attached and then be picked up on the tail end of the pick-up train. The Southern was also into this method.


The Frisco also lableled certain Advance Sections as "Stubs". If I remember correctly, if a train left its point of origin "early" it was labeled as an Advance Train. If a train left an intermediate point point early, it was called a Stub. For example, if train 131 had enough cars to leave before its scheduled time from KC, it would be known as Advance 131. On the other hand if Springfield had enough cars ready to roll before 131 reached that point, a 131 Stub could leave before 131 arrived from KC.