The UPS truck delivered my Walthers Proto 2000 Frisco FM H10-44 today. I have not had an opportunity to study it in detail, but following are my initial observations. o It is expensive - mine is w/o sound, was $140 delivered. o Nice model, very nice detail - thin railings and grabs, neat fan detail, nice FM logo medallion for the nose (you have to install it), has a crew and cab interior. o Runs well, a bit sticky at the start, but I'll bet that will smooth out in time. o Bright light, directional, looks like a LED (very white light) o Nicely shaped lettering & number font, but it's a bit thin. Why didn't they just duplicate Microscale? o Nicely decorated, but the red/orange color ..... IT'S TOO RED! (There, now I feel better) It is not close to the Atlas color - which is the best so far in the RTR Frisco o/w locomotives. I put them side-by-side and the Atlas is much superior in getting the shade of red/orange correct, at least to my eye. This FM is not too bad, however - to me, it looks about the same as the old Athearn color (SW1500,GP38-2,SD40-2), slightly better than the new Athearn color (GP35, but much better than the GP40-2), better than the Broadway Ltd color (SW7), and much better than the very old Atlas (GP7), early Walthers (H10-44,GP15-1) and AHM (GP18) red colors. With the vast number of photos out there, I do not know why these guys can't get the red/orange closer to what was reality, or get the font correct. o A couple of things will need to be added or changed: - The model has the as-delivered small horn mounted on the hood side in front of the engineer. The SLSF units had a bigger horn, looks like it might be a single Leslie, mounted on the top of the hood in front of the cab. - There are no marker lamps on the model for the front of the locomotive like the Frisco used. - The model has cab window shades (to install), but they are red. Most of the pics I looked at had white cab shades. - The exhaust ports are two holes in the hood top, nicely blackened. The Frisco had two short stubby stacks mounted on the hood on SOME of their H10-44's. Perhaps the extra Stewart VO short exhaust stacks will work here? - The SLSF units had a small, high mounted yellow rotary beacon on the top of the hood, next to the horn. I don't know of a good detail part for this - all too beefy. - The SLSF units had a "firecracker" radio antenna mounted on the cab front roof. One irritation - the model is packed in the box P2K style with plastic brackets inserted into each coupler housing to keep the model cozy and centered in the box. These things are screwed into the coupler pockets using the coupler mounting screws. On my model, these screws were tightened down very tightly. The Phillips screw is very small, and I had a heck of a time getting them removed. Be careful with this, as it would be easy to strip the "cross" in the screw head, and then it would be a real challenge getting the round-headed screw out. I was successful using a relatively large Phillips screwdriver with a sharp point. The smaller modeling ones I have were worthless, and were just stripping the screw head. My model is SLSF 270, representing the class FM H10-44 unit. Overall, except for the red color and the thin font, I think it is very well done. I wish it was the earlier black and yellow version - that would be one fine looking locomotive. Ken
Rick - I just shot a few fast pics of the Walthers H10-44 right out of the box. No couplers, nor any of the kit detail added. Sorry I'm not a better photographer. I haven't checked, but Walthers might have a pic of it in their on-line catalog now. It's in their current (March) sale catalog, but only as a drawing. Ken
John - Yes, it has a lot finer detail than the original. And, I think it will run a lot better once it is broken in. But, the original Walthers H10-44 was a pretty nice model in my book, certainly for the time. Is this one worth the added cost? - maybe, maybe not. Depends on the individual. I'm keeping my original version (still a kit in the box after all these years), and will do it in black & yellow some day. I'm sure it will look OK along side this new one. Ken
Wow, that IS pretty doggone red! Looks as red as the GP35s and GP40-2s from Athearn. However, a little weathering should solve things. The price seems a bit steep,but the price for sound-equipped models is in the neightborhood of most of the other sound-equipped units (the smaller ones, anyway). Speaking of red, how can you make it look faded? I have one of those Atlas shells I picked up in Tulsa last month, and the paint & lettering are, well, not all that good. Lettering I can work on, but short of stripping the shell, what can I do to make that red look passable?
Thanks for posting the photos Ken. I think the details look great. Hey that might appear to be too red but for a unit just out of the paint shop, that is probably very close. I have a couple of Jan Jester duplicate slides of a GP38 and a caboose fresh out of the paint shop and I was surprised by how red they looked. I am sure that within a short time the sun faded them to the more familiar orange that we are used to. Think I am going to get one of these even though they were confined to Tulsa for the most part. Frisco Faster Freight! Rick
There have been several references lately to to rising costs of plastic locomotives and are they worth the extra money. In my opinion (for what it's worth), yes they are. I think we as modelers have actually caused this trend by demanding models with more and more detail. Several manufacturers are "re-tooling", "new-tooling" their models to make them more appealing and keep up with "the offerings of the guy down the block". I can offer two models as great "case in point examples" (1) Several years ago Atlas began producing the beautiful 6-bay cylindrical hopper and we all grabbed them up. Last year they upgraded the tooling by changing the roofwalk to a metal see-thru one and putting on neat coupler swing bolsters on the frame. A model that went for around $15.00 now costs in the $25.00 range. I for one sold my old ones at a recent train show as they looked outdated in compaison. (2) Atlas produced the 2 bay cement hopper which also sold in the $15.00 price range. Along came Kadee with the same car with their quality that sold for $35.00 and again I had some swap meet items. Athearn has recently backed off a little and is no longer offering Genesis quality rolling stock in the $25.00 price range, but great products that don't have all the details added such as coupler cut bars that now fall into the $17.00 to $20.00 range. I find it interesting that they advertise them as being perfect for small railroads. Bottom line, we get what we pay for and what we demand in the case of detail. I will gladly pay $250.00 for a highly detailed sound equipped locomotive that runs well. Bob Hoover FriscoFriend
BOb, when you said perfect for a small railroad, that was absolutely correct, I dont know how many times I banged my knees having to crawl across to cut a car because it was missing a cut lever. LOL! Athearn must really be jumping on board the shortline system and staying away from the mainlines of the BigBoys! Although dont get me wrong I like Athearn stuff, I like adding alot of my own details, I like those brass quality plastic models they are coming out with today, case in point thoug, for the price, it is taking me alot longer to fill my yard and industries with rollingstock than it did back when you could get the $3.00 kits, shake em together, and dump em outta the box onto the tracks. |-||-||-|
Did anyone purchase a sound-equipped unit? I am wondering how the "FM" will sound, as I have not seen or heard a sound equipped FM unit by any manufacturer at this point.
A fellow at the local club did. It sounded really good until it quit working. The speaker is in the fuel tank and it picked up trash track and shorted out. He sent it back to Walthers. I think it picked up so much trash because of all the running that we do on the club layout. I don't beleive this would be a problem on a home layout. The club is DC so he never had a chance to try all the functions in DCC
Someone brought one (C&NW) to Jim Tilley's operating session last night. I was yard master at the junction town just across the aisle from the big yard where it was working. It was certainly LOUD. I mentioned as it started - "That sounds like a Baldwin". The guy who brought it replied, "It's actually a F-M, but there's no F-M sound chip yet." It wasn't quite as deep and "throbbing" a sound as those opposed-piston Fairbanks-Morse units. One would think a chip could be programmed. I've even got an old cassette tape with recorded F-M sounds, plus there are still some of them around. Those diesels were used on a lot of tugs and ships too. Great session - at least 20 were there. Jim gets a lot built between sessions by ignoring TV. Doug
I think the F-M o/p engine also ran at a higher RPM than did the Baldwin De La Vergne engine, which ran at a very low RPM (relatively) vs other diesels. I remember Doug's F-M tape which I believe he had along at the Memphis FMIG meeting years ago. That's where I first heard somebody describe the F-M sound as sounding like a "big sewing machine". Ken
I had never heard a F-M so I went looking and came up with this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruQqXtDdKTc
For those of you who, like me, have an original Walthers HO "H10-44" model sitting around ..... this model was introduced in the late 1980's. I've had an undec sitting around here since then, and have not looked at it closely for about ten years. After a quick look today, and checking with Marre's FDP, it seems to me to be a very bad model of a Frisco H10-44. But, would it not make a better, much more accurate, model of a Frisco H12-44? It has much closer hood and louver H12-44 details than on the H10-44's to my eye. I'd do it in black & yellow, of course! That would minimize the few problems. I'm actually happy about this - gives me a chance to add a Frisco H12-44 to my roster to go along with the recent Walthers H10-44 release, which is very nice even if it is in r/w colors. I admit I will have to do something to model that H12-44 spark arrestor! Anybody else have any thoughts or comments on this thought? Ken
I have one of the old Roco built F-Ms in UP colors. The details are a mix of H10 and H12 features, but it does seem to be closer to an H12. I installed a decoder, and it runs very, very well. (It's very, very heavy). I've been thinking about stripping it and painting it for the Frisco, as it already has black trucks. What decals would you use for B&Y?
Gary - I'd probably start with Microscale #87-85 for the numbers and road name. That is my all-time favorite Frisco decal set. I don't know what to do about the stripes yet - have to work on that. Probably try to make them up from the Microscale stripe sets so the color is the same. Ken
I plan to post more on this subject on a different thread, but I did some research and found out that Walthers is using QSI Sound in their locomotives. The other popular option avaliable today is the new Soundtraxx Tsunami. The basic difference is with QSI one needs to buy a programmer to then be able to download sounds or change them from an online library. The advantage to this is that you can take a decoder you have programmed for an Alco and put it into a GE and change the sound accordingly. The downside is the programmer costs about $80.00. With the Tsunami they offer a prime mover specific decoder loaded with a group of horns to choose from and enough functions to replicate roof beacons and nose gyra lights that we Frisco modelers need. The horns included are the Leslie 5 chime so we're covered there also. They do make one for FM so I suggest going to their website and listening to the sound sample. http://www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/tsunami/index.php?p=tsunamisound.php After listening would someone please report back if they think it sounds realistic. Also, as posted on another thread by Bob Wintle, although it isn't listed here, they have recently released the non-turbocharged EMD645. Also, Athearn has just announced that on all future sound equipped offerings, they will be using the Tsunami. The soon to be relealsed Stewart U25B will also be Tsunami equipped. Several of us have already decided to use these exclusively. Bob Hoover FriscoFriend
I listened to the Tsunami rendition of the FM engine and it IS the real thing (after all they electronically sampled the sound to reproduce it). There are some youtube videos out there, including one with a very annoying bell) that will confirm the authenticity of the sound. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExEYewvs3lU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruQqXtDdKTc (annoying bell)
The video of the ex Army FM is right on the money! Now just imagine pulling up the yard lead with 50 cars, the throttle at max, and moving about 1 MPH! It was like they were saying, ‘yea baby I can do it’! And they did do it! It was one of my favorite engines to operate. They would actually lay down under full throttle and not spin wheel!! The Soundtraxx Tsunami sound chip (in my opinion) is not even close. It sounds like an engine setting on the apron with the machinist doing a load test, with out a load. I would hope the ones in the models sound like they are actually working. For what it is worth, Jerome
