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ANOTHER GREAT FRISCO RAFFLE!

Troop Sleeper/Baggage Cars

Discussion in 'Express Cars' started by Larry E Shankles, Aug 29, 2007.

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  1. Larry E Shankles

    Larry E Shankles Member

    Anyone know of any photos of the Baggage cars 452-464 which were built from troop sleepers and/or troop kitchen cars? I have seen a few in whole train photos, but no close up portraits suitable for providing necessary details for modeling.
     
    Larry E Shankles, Aug 29, 2007
    #1
  2. gna

    gna Member Frisco.org Supporter

    gna, Aug 29, 2007
    #2
  3. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Gentlemen -
    Here's the link to the drawings of 452-464
    Express Cars

    I could've swore that I'd posted photos of both door styles but I can't find them. I'll rescan and repost.

    Best Regards,
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
    yardmaster, Aug 29, 2007
    #3
  4. gna

    gna Member Frisco.org Supporter

    There's a short article on troop sleepers in the FMIG archive on this site, but I can barely make out the pictures. See http://www.frisco.org/modules.php?name=FMIG

    CLick on What's New, and it's at the top. Click on the link to CMS #39.
     
    gna, Aug 30, 2007
    #4
  5. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Larry--I don't know if you ever got an answer to your inquiry about Frisco express cars converted from troop sleepers (nearly a year ago), but maybe this will help some. Evidently nos. 450 and 451 were toilet and heat equipped for an express messenger and they had inside sliding doors and the door opening wasn't the full height of the car (leaving a "letterboard" for the F-R-I-S-C-O above the door).
    Cars 452-464 were storage cars with no heat or toilets and they had a full height boxcar style door. The photo is #450 (Arthur B. Johnson, 2-15-59 at the Springfield depot). Photo of #455 in separate post.

    Tom
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2008
    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020), Apr 26, 2008
    #5
  6. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    OK--Here's the photo of #455--w/boxcar style door and different lettering arrangement (I think this is a Frisco company photo after the conversion, painting and lettering) explanation in my previous post.

    Tom
     

    Attached Files:

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020), Apr 26, 2008
    #6
  7. Larry E Shankles

    Larry E Shankles Member

    Thanks Tom, just what I was looking for.
     
    Larry E Shankles, Apr 27, 2008
    #7
  8. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Tom, glad you remembered to dig into this one! Thanks for finding the photo.

    Finally dug out the 1994 museum All Aboard that had a write-up on the baggage cars and their conversions to M/W.

    Here's a photo of working baggage car (as described by the article) #450 - 5.14.1948 Frisco Photo, posted w/permission. I'm hoping the trucks will show up - I don't have my identification guide and I should know what they are called.

    Later photos of the storage baggage cars show the more typical express trucks.

    Notice 450 has a nice variety of equipment on the underside - interior photos show lights and presumably the other acoutrements for a messenger as Tom noted!

    The article does reference that #456 was extensively damaged in a January 1951 crossing accident with the M-K-T at Scott Junction. Presumably it was scrapped after that date.

    Seems most of the storage baggage cars received silver-gray paint when converted to company service. I don't know where but I remember seeing several Mike Condren color photos where at least one was renumbered to 6 digits but still in Pullman green. The magazine article notes that 109157 and 109159 were still in Pullman Green in July 1979.

    Finally...I'm also including the table showing Pullman-to-SLSF conversion numbers and dates.
     

    Attached Files:

    yardmaster, Apr 27, 2008
    #8
    Ozarktraveler likes this.
  9. John Sanders

    John Sanders Member

    Attached are two shots from my first roll of color slide film. These were shot in West Plains on Thanksgiving day in 1972. There were always intersting things to see in West Plains including UP and SCL run-through units, an active depot, an auto rack unloader and many MOW cars in various paint schemes.

    The rebuilt troop sleepers arrived a little bit after my model building time period, but I may have to make an exception!

    John Sanders
     

    Attached Files:

    John Sanders, Apr 27, 2008
    #9
    pathowe likes this.
  10. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Here's SLSF 451 with still another style of trucks. This photo is from Pat Coughlin's collection and he believes the date and location are Amory, MS; 4-3-79. In studying the Frisco troop car diagrams, data and photos, I believe all the Frisco troop cars were sleepers and not kitchen cars

    Tom
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2008
    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020), Apr 27, 2008
    #10
    pathowe likes this.
  11. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    John -
    Thanks for sharing. Wonder if that's oil spilled on the sides? Looks like a haz-mat card by the door, and I'm guessing there's some rule/reason on the white renumbering on red background?
     
    yardmaster, Apr 27, 2008
    #11
  12. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Tom, I think you are right on. The All Aboard article states:
    "It should be noted that the American Car & Foundry Co. built 400 kitchen cars of similar design to support the new fleet of Pullman Troop Sleepers."

    Assuming the table of conversions showing Pullman car numbers is accurate, then I would most certainly agree!

    Thanks for sharing the photo; good to see these and other green pax cars in color.

    Best Regards,
     
    yardmaster, Apr 27, 2008
    #12
  13. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Does anyone know if the troop sleepers that were converted to express cars by the Frisco had the glass door windows at the ends of the cars plated or covered (or glass removed)? None of these photos show enough of the car ends to tell for sure.

    Tom

    (edit) On further examination, car 451 seems to have had it's end window plated over or else it's a solid door.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2008
    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020), Apr 27, 2008
    #13
  14. John Sanders

    John Sanders Member

    I believe the dark stains running down the car sides was water from melting snow. I remember it was cold and windy that day, but the sun was bright enough on the dark car to melt snow. You can just see the snow on the roof in the first photo. I would assume the red background for the new stencils was the 1972 version of box car red and was used because they no longer had Pullman green. There was another green express car at the Springfield west shops, but it might have been the 1942 standard box car version. Somewhere I have a photo of that one too. Thanks to everyone sharing their photos...this brings back lots of good memories.

    John Sanders
    Springfield, MO
     
    John Sanders, Apr 27, 2008
    #14
  15. gna

    gna Member Frisco.org Supporter

    gna, Apr 28, 2008
    #15
  16. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Looks like the Walthers' car is a perfect match for the roll-out photo of #455 posted below (except the Frisco car still has its roof vents). If you removed the lettering carefully, you might not even have to repaint--just add decals and weather it. I wish there were a similar car in N scale--The Micro-Trains car is the as-built troop sleeper before conversion to express car.

    Tom
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2008
    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020), Apr 28, 2008
    #16
  17. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    yardmaster, Dec 18, 2008
    #17
  18. Oldguy

    Oldguy Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Oldguy, Sep 15, 2014
    #18
  19. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    What were the original express trucks that were outfitted to the ex-troop sleepers? For whatever reason I cannot locate this information anywhere through searching here or my paper files.

    I also think that the same trucks were applied to Express Cars 465-469. The drawings for the latter indicate ASF Ride Control trucks, but I think those were added latter - certainly after my early summer, 1943 modeling timeframe.

    Best Regards,
     
    yardmaster, Feb 24, 2018
    #19
  20. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    They were Allied full cushion trucks. From what I understand, there was some kind of design flaw.

    I am pretty sure that those cars were still carrying troops in 1943....

    Paul
     
    pbender, Feb 24, 2018
    #20
    Joe Lovett likes this.
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