Stateline Railroad

Discussion in 'General' started by trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017), Aug 20, 2010.

  1. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    A few months ago my family and I moved into a house that has a room in the back that was apparently added on for a den. We initially let the kids have it for a "playroom" (I don't know about other parts of the country but in NW Alabama that's what we call it). In addition to toys, we put the computer desk and a small console piano in the room. After years of not having space for a layout, I realized a couple of weeks ago that I could clear out space for a 4x8 table in the "playroom." Since the kids love to "play trains" with me anyway, it's perfect.

    I've never worked in any scale other than HO. My first (HO) trainset was given to me by my parents for Christmas 30 years ago. Since then, I've dabbled in HO items as the budget allowed. I can't afford to start over in a smaller scale so the new layout will be in HO so I can use stuff I already have.

    I am going to use atlas true-track with the plastic road-bed. This will allow for easier changes and additions later. However, plastic roadbed on plywood is NOISY! What (if anything) can I do to reduce plastic roadbed noise on a table? (I've already asked this once with few replies. With all due respect, please...no one tell me again to "deal with it [noise]." I don't think that was said to be hurtful but it certainly wasn't helpful.)

    No more questions from here to the end...
    Just me sharing my ideas for the layout with other modelers...
    So if you don't have time to waist reading my ideas, you've been warned :D...

    Honestly, I've never been too interested in modeling "real stuff". I'd much rather create an original "town." To me it allows for more creativity (but to each his own). Therefore, rather than model my "real" hometown, I'm going to create a nearby fictional "town"... an even smaller, more rural community scene with some small businesses. I'm going to call my layout the "Stateline Railroad" since, I grew up close to the AL/MS line on the Birmingham Subdivision. The community will be "Stateline, AL." (By the way, according to my research, there isn't a real Stateline, AL.)

    (My created "history" for the railroad...)
    The Stateline Railroad is a 4-mile, shortline railroad that is owned by the Stateline Railroad Cooperative and operated by the Stateline Railroad Club with its office located in Stateline, AL. The line was originally built by the Frisco as a spur off of the Memphis-Birmingham mainline from the AL/MS state line to Stateline, AL in order to service local industries. After Burlington Northern aquired the Frisco, the line was allowed to decay. When BN merged with Santa Fe, BNSF abandoned the line after deciding that repair costs and maintainance would exceed revenue.
    As a result, the local small businesses who had depended on the line for decades formed the Stateline Railroad Cooperative. They bought the line from BNSF, made repairs, and purchased used equipment
    (so I can use the assortment of road names I already own or repaint/re-letter my equipment) to interchange with BNSF. A replica of the old Stateline depot was built on the original site to serve as an office for the railroad and a railroad museum. In addition, they aquired donations of old equipment for the museum (a way for me to use my unusable, "retired" stuff).
    The Stateline RR Co-op and Stateline Railroad Club also operate excursions as part of the museum tour. (That gives me an excuse to run passenger trains on a "freight railroad.") The Stateline Railroad Club recieved permission from the city of Amory, MS to restore the Frisco 1529. BNSF allows the club to use BNSF track for special excursions with 1529. (which allows me to have my 1529 [once I letter my 4-8-2] pulling an excursion on a shortline freight railroad without seeming out of place).

    That's all for now. Any helpful thoughts, ideas, tips, hints, etc. are always welcome.
     
  2. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Well I'll try,

    You can use a sheet of wafer board/Plywood and a sheet of fiber bracing, which is most in-expensive glued, screwed together.

    Try not to use Celotex, it looks almost the same but is much less dense than Fiber bracing, which will hold a small nail. Fiber bracing, also, is a good sound insulator and easily cut with a utility knife.
    I always had an idea of building a 4'X8' frame on a wall, with a 4'X8' sheet of the combination above attached with a piano hing on the bottom, so you could fold one into the other and have a RR when you want it, and close it up when you didn't.
    For a small RR it would be great. You could even put 2, one on each corner of a room and fold one down into the other and have an L shaped outfit too.
    Tom
     
  3. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    I've always heard pink foam works. You should be able to get it in a 4x8 sheet of foam at the lumber yard or Lows, Home Depot, etc. with your plywood. Pink foam between the track and plywood base is good for two reasons:
    1. It absorbs noise (most, but not all)
    2. It works as a better scenery base than plywood cause you can cut foam with a knife.

    Now I've never head of fiber bracing, so Tom, could explain what that is please and how it differs from foam.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2012
  4. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    Thanks, I didn't know how well a sheet of foam would hold up but apparently a lot of people use it. I'll also research the fiber board since I've never heard of it.

    For those who haven't read the original post...
    On the topic of reducing the noise of plastic roadbed on plywood...

    2 quick questions:
    1 Would puting a layer of cork material on the plywood first help?
    2 Would putting down several boards rather than a single sheet of plywood reduce noise better? Sound is caused by vibration so I'm wondering if boards would reduce the ammount of surface area vibrating at any given time. What if the plywood was cut into pieces? Would cutting down the ammount of vibrating surface area make a difference? It seems to make sense to me.

    I've even considered (2) 2X8 tables bolted together or (4) 2x4 tables instead of (1) 4x8. (I got that idea when I was in a HO model rr club - our facility and contents burned to the ground a few months after we started and the owner never built back.) My wife and I are renting so 2 narrow tables or 4 small tables would be easier to move when the time comes. It would also allow for expansion down the road. I'm pretty sure it would reduce noise. Your thoughts please...
     
  5. MFreix

    MFreix Member

    You either need something to absorb the sound, or isolate it. Foam weather stripping or something along that line may be able to isolate the plastic from the wood. Another angle is used often in car audio, and that is using a deadening material which adds mass to absorb the sound - this could be more expensive though.
     
  6. rcmck

    rcmck Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Brandon -

    You nailed it earlier: cork should be a very effective solution. You can buy it in sheets of all sizes - thinking home improvement/hardware stores. It doesn't have to be particularly thick either - 1/8" or so. Some hobby shops sell it in narrow strips - like 8" wide and a couple feet long.

    Everything that I've read, in past modeling magazines and books, recommends cork. Hope this helps you with the noise issue.

    Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!

    Bob McKeighan
    Lenexa, KS
     
  7. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    Well using cork between snap track and plywood to reduce noise just made sense to me since I've used the cork roadbed under flex track with previous layouts. Also, I'm a high school band director (who took Physics of Sound in college) and I've been in several high school band rehearsal rooms with cork squares on the wall for acoustical purposes. As for model railroading, I've just never understood how brown cork is supposed to be realistic looking for light gray rock. Can't they at least color the cork? Obviously cork is a nice roadbed for a more permanent layout but I may want to change it up every now and then...that's just me. That's why I like snap track...it's easy to change routes. However the black EZ track and Powerloc roadbeds I have look insane. No railroad I've ever seen uses black rock...duh! What were they thinking? I bought it because I didn't have space for a layout and I didn't know at the time that anyone made gray snap track roadbed. I like the idea of gray roadbed (even if it's noisy plastic snap track) brown ties and that .083 (or whatever it is) rail height. Again to each his own. If there is a more realistic looking or better snap track than Atlas True-Track, someone...anyone...PLEASE let me know.
     
  8. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    For your purpose, foam is too dense and will only act like a high resonant frequency soundboard. Cork is also fairly dense and will deaden the sound somewhat. Probably the best sound deadener for your application will be a sheet of Homasote. It may be tougher to come by but will probably be your best bet.
     
  9. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    Homasote? Thanks!
    Here's one thing on wikipedia.org about homasote...
    "Model railroading
    Homasote is frequently used by model railroading for the sub-roadbed or roadbed, mainly because of its noise-deadening qualities, and because nails can be easily driven in it..."
    I've inquired to The Homasote Company about how to purchase a sheet. Homasote is basically a sheet of compressed/glued recycle paper if I understand my research correctly.
     
  10. mark

    mark Staff Member Staff Member

    Brandon,

    Suggest you check out the California Roadbed Company, Inc.

    This firm produces various profile and heights of custom milled roadbed from sheet homasote. They offer the roadbed material for various scales from N scale to large scale. In addition to roadbed material, they also offer turnout pads, crossing pads, shim or transition pieces, wide pads for multiple tracks, etc.

    You can order the material direct from the company. Their web site has contact and ordering information. Further, their web site also includes a list of dealers by state. They also describe the material and the company history. I suspect one could request a sample to see the material before you buy.

    By purchasing the material pre-milled you can save the time, effort and huge mess of cutting the material yourself. The material creates a huge amount of dust that is very difficult to collect unless you have a full high capacity shop vac system on your cutting tools.

    Please see http://www.homabed.com/site/890800/page/45029.

    Hope this helps.

    Thanks!

    Mark
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2010
  11. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    Thanks mark,
    I'll look at their website.
     
  12. SteveM

    SteveM Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Local experience is that the big box stores don't stock Homasote, and the local lumber yards sometimes do. We can usually find a few sheets by calling around the two county area. They will order if you want enough sheets.
    My layout has Homasote over everything but water areas. Of course there's not much open country, mostly urban railside industrial areas. Cork is added for mainlines. Yards and industrial trackage just spiked down, holes cut in for magnets, but can be easily filled. You can do some carving for drainage channels. In most cases, the Homasote is spliced over joints in the 2'x8' benchwork sections, smoothing out any vertical curves that result despite best efforts with multiple 4' levels.
    I have some scraps of Homasote roadbed that I think was cut for friend's layout. He may have bought the curvable setions and made his own straights.
    And yes, a saw creates lots of dust and lint.
    I paint the sheet as soon as it's screwed down, to minimize moisture issues.
     
  13. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    Thanks for the tip. I looked at lowes.com and homedepot.com but I don't think they carry homasote. (I know those closest to me don't stock it). I think I'll give my local mom & pop building supply businesses and see if they could get me a sheet.
    I'm going to use a whole sheet because I'm going to use true-track for roadbed anyway and I'm not interested in terrain right now...more a level area (maybe a small "town stream/creek" in it with some "main street" businesses...but most of the layout will be small industry (sand & gravel, lumber mill, agriculture, etc.) I'm really just interested homasote as a "snap-track noise" reducer. Thanks again for the tips, everyone!
     
  14. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    I just discovered Atlas' layout design software. If the attachment works, the image is a blueprint of what I have planned for the Stateline Railroad.

    I'm going to make my own custom decals so I designed a logo that includes maroon crossbucks lettered "STATELINE RAILROAD" in white letters with an outline of the states of Alabama and Mississippi in the background. Also, on the equipment, I will use "STLN" above the numbers. I'm a Miss. St. graduate (thanks to a band and academic scholarship) so the paint scheme for the railroad will be...what else...maroon and white.

    So far I have failed to mention an important reason for using snap track. A few years ago, my wife began collecting "Christmas village" stuff. After a couple of years of putting it on a small table, I decided to put it on a 4x8 sheet of plywood on top of a folding table...(you see where this is going)...and include HO trains!!!:D I had an oval of powerlocks track and a circle (inside on end of the oval) of EZ track.

    Although we are in a larger house now, we still don't have room for a permanent 4x8 layout AND the Christmas village layout at the same time. So...I am planning my new layout for the annual conversion to a Christmas village. Since I'm going to use true-track anyway, this just makes sense to me.
    This will require me to change out the plywood. My layout's green "grass" plywood will be replaced with the village's white "snow cover" plywood. I will attach trim around the top of my table frame so that, rather than nail or screw down plywood during the transition every year, I can just pull one sheet out and drop in the other sheet.

    Since I'll be changing everything but the frame for the table (and changing it back) annually, snap track seems to be the way to go. True-track seems to be the most realistic looking snap-track I can purchase. Suggestions, ideas, tips, hints, etc. are always welcome. Please reply if you have any thoughts.
     

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  15. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    Well it's certainly been a while since I updated this thread about my layout. I built the bench last August. It is roughly 8x6. It's in the rear of a storage room and is wall to wall on 3 sides. For access it has a 4x2 access space in the center. I painted the top of it green. So far I've been running some ez track and powerlocs track that I had on hand. Monday, while in Birmingham, I visited Oak Mountain Hobbies and Homewood Toys & Hobbies...2 stores I didn't know existed until I realized both Hobby Town USA locations have apparently closed and I began searching online. Since I already had 3 sections of code 100 flex track that I've never used and a L turnout and R turnout in code 100, I only needed 9 more sections of code 100 flex track to complete my layout. The layout will basically be parallel ovals around the access space with an industrial (thru) spur. I hope to be laying track by the weekend.
    In other news, my family and I re-visited Meridian, MS this past weekend where we worked and lived a few years back. Meridian is at the intersection of what I believe are the KCS (former GM&O), NS, and MB (Merdian & Bigbee shortline). Meridian is also on the New York - New Orleans Amtrack route. We saw an Amtrack train make a stop at the station. Also, the Meridian Model RR Club is now located in one of the buildings at the station. They were open to the public Sat. morning and were so nice. Sadly I didn't know there was a club there when I lived there. They were at another location then with over 8000 ft. of track (HO). I saw something I'd never seen before...cotton used as chimney smoke.
    Also, the kids wanted to go railfanning today. A BNSF coal consist stopped here in Sulligent, AL. Now that may not sound like a big deal to you but any time a train stops in Sulligent now days, no matter the reason, and you're lucky enough to see it...on an intentional railfanning outing...it's a hugh deal. Ship it on the Frisco!
     
  16. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I believe Menard's handles homasote (and they carry it in 2x4 foot pieces, so you don't need a truck to get it home). At least in our area (Chicago), Home Depot no longer does.

    GS
     

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