Questions about the early life of the Frisco

Discussion in 'General' started by Isaiah, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. Isaiah

    Isaiah Member

    I have been doing some research about the history of freight car design, and I've noted a large "dead zone" before the turn of the century where there isn't much information or images talking about the progression, technology, changes, or really anything else. I also noted the Frisco began during this era, so I was curious to see if any of you have information/images/other resources I could take a gander at and use for my presentation. I also have some specific questions like:

    What did the Frisco start out using in terms of freight and motive power?
    What were the Frisco's major sources of traffic up to WW1?
    What kind of construction were most of the Frisco's roster? (Wooden only or Steel Underframe or All Steel)
    What did the Frisco's first diesels look like, and when did they arrive?

    Thanks for all the information!
     
  2. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    In answer to question one, I would refer you to Frisco Power by Joe Collias ISBN 0-931365-17-1. The very first locomotives ordered by the Frisco were 2-6-0 Moguls from Rogers Locomotive Works and Baldwin Locomotive Works.
    I will defer to Karl Brand or other great authority on question two.
    Same for question three.
    Also from Frisco Power by Joe Collias, the first diesel power appeared in the guise of switchers; the Baldwin VO-1000 in Zephyr Blue and White livery with red lettering. The first road diesels were EMD EA7 passenger locomotives for the Meteor and Texas Special. The first road freight locomotives were EMD F3 A-B-A sets
     
  3. gbnf

    gbnf Member

    Another good book is Frisco Diesel Power by Louis A. Marre and John Baskin Harper
    ISBN 0-916374--66-1 Interurban Press 1984

    (Quote) "Thus it was that on November 22, 1941, after a tedious ten-day trip from Philadelphia to St. Louis in local freights, a dark-blue. white-striped, red-lettered VO-1000 lettered "Frisco" and numbered "200" arrived at the Frisco's Lindenwood Yard in St. Louis. After being set up, the locomotive entered service the next day, November 23, 1941. The diesel-electric locomotive had arrived on the SLSF."

    Builder's photo: https://frisco.org/mainline/2015/10/13/vo-1000-200-3/

    (Click on photo to enlarge)
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  4. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Regarding locomotives this is a very quick and condensed overview...

    Until 1904, the Frisco used 4-4-0's, 2-6-0's, 4-6-0's (63" drivers were psgr, 56" drivers were freight), 0-6-0's, and 2-8-0's, which were acquired 1876-77 and 1881-84. The Frisco rostered a total of 84 moguls, many of which were scrapped in the great locomotive extinction of 1914-1916. This thread has a bit about the moguls. http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?threads/cumulative-active-mogul-roster.8398/
    During 1900-06, the Frisco purchased additional, but relatively small 2-8-0's
    During 1904 the Frisco acquired what might be considered its first piece of modern power, the 1000-1009 & 1010-1014 series 4-6-2's.
    During the 19 aughts and teens Frisco continued to purchase larger 4-4-0's, 4-6-0's, 4-6-2's, and 2-8-0's
    During 1910 the Frisco purchased 7, 2-8-8-2's which were the largest locomotive built to that date. http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index....5-frisco-2006-the-malfunctioning-mallet.7186/
    During 1916-1917, the 60 spot class 2-10-2's arrived.

    I can put something with regard to TOC tonnage, but it will have to wait until next week. I am heading to Florida for a long weekend of spring training baseball.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  5. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    Steam Locomotives of the Frisco Line by Lloyd Stagner (1976: Pruett) ISBN 0-87108-588-7 is also a very thorough resource for this question. As the copyright date indicates, it is out of print. I found my paper bound copy in good condition on E-bay.
     
  6. gna

    gna Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I, too, would like to find more information on Frisco rolling stock in the TOC 19 era. The freight car diagrams posted on this site are excellent, but I can't find any boxcars shorter than 40' in them.
     
    William Jackson likes this.
  7. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter


    Short Trains and Small Locomotives

    1903 Locomotives:
    586

    Ag Products
    Percent of Total 1903 Tonnage 19.80
    Corn 320,384.0 Tons
    Wheat 481,439.5
    Other Grain 124,546.5

    Flour 926,369.9
    Other Mill Products 123,504.3
    Hay 201,906.8
    Cotton 165,507.8
    Fruit & Vegetables 153,566.8
    Cotton Seed & By products 132,080.2

    Animal Product
    Percent of Total 1903 Tonnage 5.49
    Live Stock 398,647.6 Tons
    Packing House Products 139,867.7
    Dressed Meats 0.0
    Poulty, Game, & Fish 9260.4
    Wool 432.5
    Hides & Leather 3848.9

    Minerals
    Percent of Total 1903 Tonnage 41.15
    Bituminous Coal 3,518,540.6 Tons
    Coke 101,808.7
    Ores (assume Lead & Zinc) 198,446.2
    Stone, Sand & the like 316,340.6

    Forest Products
    Percent of Total 1903 Tonnage 13.73
    Lumber 1,379,926.3 Tons
    No distinction made with regard to raw timber vs finished lumber

    Manufactured Products
    Percent of Total 1903 Tonnage 11.57
    Petroleum & Other Oils 70,182.8 Tons
    Sugar 44,169.4
    Iron, Pig,& Bloom 178,424.8
    Iron & Steel Rails 95,109.1
    Castings and Machinery 110,310.7
    Bar & Sheet Metal 81,731.4
    Cement, Brick & Lime 415,317.6
    Ag Implements 23,555.8
    Wagons, Carriages, Tools 33,148.5
    Wine, Liquor, & Beer 33,372.5
    Household Goods & Furniture 77,135.8



    Company Business 2,190,701.8 Tons

    Average Tons per Train
    1897 117.33
    1898 127.89
    1899 129.78
    1900 154.91
    1901 187.95
    1902 186.91
    1903 195.01
    1904 200.43

    Average Loaded Cars per Train 1903: 12.77
    Average MT Cars per Train 1903: 6.46
    1903 Ton-Miles: 10,049,931.3

    Fuel Used 1903
    Coal: 1,201,080 Tons
    Wood: 13,276 Cords
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
    gbnf, mountaincreekar and Joe Lovett like this.
  8. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    Karl, that is quite a list, very interesting. Is there a another list for 1948 to 1952 time era that breaks down tonnage. I'm particularly interested in Central Division Ft. Smith sub.

    Joe
     
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  9. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    I can compile a similar "system" list for that time frame. I do have some system tonnage maps, from which one can see Central Division undivided tonnage values. As I recall, one map is from the mid 30's, and the other from the mid-40's.
     
    Joe Lovett likes this.
  10. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    Karl, the list of tonnage for mid 40's would be close enough for me. It would be less work for you.

    Thank you in advance!!!

    Joe
     

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