Pullman green instead of red on streamlined lightweight equipment?

I've noticed in some pics (and also saw this when I was a kid sneaking around the West Shops, but that's a different thread) that some lightweight cars had the red painted over into Pullman green towards the end of passenger service. Does anyone have insights or comments on why this was done, how many cars received this treatment, etc etc?

 

As the lightweight cars came due for fresh paint toward the end of passenger service in 1967, they were given the green treatment (almost looks black), I suppose, to match the heavyweight cars still in use. I don't know how many were (mis)treated in this fashion, but there was at least one coach, Pasadena Hills, that had its fluting removed and painted solid Pullman green.

GS

 

From other discussions on the forum (mostly http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index....m-railroad-historical-museum.2760/#post-17222 )

SLSF 1251 (Former "Pasadena Hills") and SLSF RPO 252 lost thier fluting.

SLSF 1550 ("Tulsa") ,1650 (Sterling Price), and 1652 ("Huntley") were all painted green with their fluting.

There may have been other lightweight cars painted green as well, but these are the ones I know of.

Paul

 

To me, the cars with the fluting completely removed and painted Pullman green looked better than the ones that had window bands and lettering painted green. They should have done others that way.
Hard to tell if some of those late painted car ends were done in black (As some roofs) or green?? As a modeler, I'm just going to ignore the era of the black roofs and Pullman green window bands. I did like 1251 and 252, I think I'll fit them into my modeling era. Speaking of painting, looks like Testors are discontinuing their model RR paints (Per a post on the Yahoo N Scale Varnish chatboard).

Tom G.

Edit (Part of the announcement from Testors):

[We have made the decision to exit the following businesses within the Testor Brand
family - Pactra , Floquil , PollyScale , and ColorArtz .
This will enable The Testor Corporation to return to our foundation of
success providing premium, innovative product that inspires creativity. We
will continue to accept orders and ship product for a limited time based on
available quantities.

Going forward, the following brands will be critical to our success and
development - Testor , Model Master , and Aztek. These brands will be infused
with marketing support, innovation and operational efficiencies.]

 

I'm a bit confused...how is it that I saw the Sterling Price at Johnny Marietta's place in Pittsburg in the early 70's back in the red?

BD

 

It appears that someone stepped in and attempted a restoration. Do you remember whether the roof was black or red?

GS

 

The Sterling Price, while at John Marietta's, had a silver roof, red window piers, and green lettering. This was late 70's or early 80's... Pictures in the morning.

Photos are courtesy of Paul Brand.

 

During the 1950’s, the Frisco pared its passenger train operations extensively. After the gasoline and rubber rationing of WWII, people returned to the automobile with a vengeance to the detriment of rail passenger travel. By time the 1960’s rolled around, even the Texas Special had left the Frisco. It was a losing proposition trying to compete with the US Interstate System, commercial air travel, et al. In a 1961 issue of the magazine, Modern Railroads, which was dedicated entirely to the Frisco, only the briefest mention was made about Frisco passenger trains. That was in the photo caption, which described Frisco passenger operation as being cutback to “core routes”. With regard to the passenger train, the handwriting was on the wall and the Frisco management knew it.


What is curious in my mind about the green, light-weight car questions revolves more around the Valley Park and the Pasadena Hills. Why did they get new sides? The original sides were removed, replaced with plain sheet metal, and painted “Pullman” green. The cars may even have had their car-body frames replaced or modified. The Pasadena Hills was re-sided during 1960, and the Valley Park was re-sided during 1964. At first glance, this would seem to be a rather expensive proposition. Given the use COR-TEN by PS, we can assume that two cars may have had severe corrosion problems, and a relatively major rebuilding was required to make the cars safe for use. But why rebuild? Surely another chair car and an RPO-baggage could be obtained from the unassigned pool. As the Frisco cut-back its passenger operations, it also reduced the size of its roster. In spite of the roster reductions, during 1960 and during 1964 it would seem that the Frisco had an adequate sized roster that would make rebuilding these two cars unnecessary.

Selected Passenger Car Classes

​

___________________________________________________Feb 1, 1959_______________________Aug 9, 1964
RPO (30’) -Baggage __________________________________25 cars _____________________________21 cars
Coach _____________________________________________82 cars_____________________________57 cars
Café-Lounge_________________________________________7 cars______________________________1 car
Buffet-Coach-Lounge__________________________________ 3 cars______________________________3 cars
Diner-Lounge-Obs_____________________________________2 cars______________________________2 cars; rebuilt w/o Obs
Buffet ______________________________________________9 cars______________________________3 cars
Buffet-Lounge________________________________________1 cars______________________________0
Postal_______________________________________________5 cars______________________________5 cars
Deluxe Coach_________________________________________5 cars______________________________5 cars
Diner Lounge_________________________________________3 cars______________________________3 cars


My father’s explanation with regard to the green/black paint treatment for light weight cars was that it was all a matter of economics. Why buy and maintain an inventory of red and silver paint for an operation with a very limited term. Pullman green (and perhaps black) was used to keep-up the appearance of the remaining light-weight fleet. I can state with confidence that the Huntleigh was green because I have the number plates and name plates from this car. Others may have been black, however.

As a footnote, the same question must be posed with regard to at least 3 of the Redbird’s, which received the O&W livery. The 2020, was painted O&W after the discontinuance of The Oklahoman. Again, why go to the trouble? In the case of the E-8’s, my father contended that the Frisco experiment with the E’s in freight service. I have never been able to find any evidence to back his claim.

 

I think black was used on the dark roofs (and probably the dark ends), but I don't think it was ever used for lettering. I'm pretty sure it (the lettering) was done in Pullman green. I used to haunt the passenger station in those last days and the car lettering caught my attention. I wondered why they didn't paint the letterboards and nameplates in Pullman green and then add lettering in the imitation (Dulux etc.) gold, leaving the rest of the car in natural stainless, to "sort of" match the heavyweights. But that would have been another step and they were just going through the motions then. I might model a car that way just to see how it would look. Wouldn't be any sillier than a "Racehorse" E-8 B or a "Racehorse PA!

Tom