Possible Original Route Bypassing Dixon Hill

Discussion in 'Rolla-Lebanon Subdivision' started by RogerRT, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. RogerRT

    RogerRT Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    All,

    About a year ago Peddling Joe asked some questions about the original line bypassing Dixon Hill in this thread

    http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?1888-Ft-Leonard-Wood-line&highlight=waynesville

    well, I think I might have found it. Using Google Earth I did a virtual survey using the elevation profile and found a route a little over 20-miles long proceeding west from Arlington that includes the 2 tunnels mentioned in Miner's book. If this is the pass Fremont surveyed & partially graded it consists of a river grade except for about 3-miles of 2% + over the summit. It also includes about 3-miles of what later became the Ft.Leonard Wood Branch from Wern-Lee, MO. Maybe there are some folks on this forum with survey or engineering expertise that could give their stamp of approval. Again, you must have Google Earth to view this map.




    Roger R. Taylor
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Peddling Joe

    Peddling Joe Frisco Employee

    If you will Google The Southern Pulaski County Railroad you can pull up a 1861 map of the proposed route. Present day Buckhorn, MO is on Interstae #44 mile post 150 and south of Buckhorn is a small town called Laquey. My calculations aka guesses are one of the tunnels was going to be completed near present day Lacquey in township 35N, Range 11W, Section 20.
    Colby and Nebo both show on the 1861 map and if one draws a line betweetn these two towns the lines intersection with the proposed roadbed is where I think the most westward tunned was planned???

    I am certainly not a expert on any of these and beg for someone to
    explore it further.
    Joe
     
  3. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    windsorspring (George) and I spend an aternoon at his home a year ago researching this same issue on his computer. Perhaps he could comment.

    Ken
     
  4. RogerRT

    RogerRT Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Joe, I don't think it made it much past Roubidoux Creek south of Waynesville. I did find one possible route where it leaves the Little Piney just above I-44 at Hartford Road. But I could not figure out why they would take this route when all they had to do was cross the Little Piney at Pine Bluff, head west along the Gasconade about 4-miles & turn south into the same valley without crossing the ridge that HWY 28 runs on top of.

    I can't find any evidence it went via Devil's Elbow other than the fact if I were building a railroad, this is the way I would go. A few sharp curves, some blasting for a roadbed around the bluffs, but a river grade with 3-miles of 2% grade, that is as good as it gets in this part of the country.

    I did find some stuff online that might interest everyone, the 2nd one lists the coordinates of one of the tunnels on page 42.

    Roger
     

    Attached Files:

  5. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    Meteor910 mentioned our efforts in post #3 to visualize possible alternate alignments to the ones eventually used on Dixon Hill. See posts 9 through 22 in http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?3247-Dixon-Hill-and-Lindenwood-Yards&highlight=Waynesville for the discussion in March 2012. In summary, we concentrated our examination to the Gasconade valley and had difficulty finding an easy way out.

    As a result, the route Ken and I considered stayed generally north of the one given on the Google Earth kmz tracing. It is very difficult country there to run a railroad. It soon becomes necessary to cut, tunnel or accept a steep grade. It looks like the surveyors accepted that fact and got out of the Gasconade valley sooner rather than later.

    Ken and I did collect maps and produce a DEM around the location of Tunnel 2 at Milepost 140, so we did look at possible alignments further south. Tunnel 2 is a couple miles due south of St. Robert on what is now called "Missouri Avenue" on Google Maps. Missouri Avenue soon enters Ft. Leonard Wood. WGS UTM84 coordinates are close to 4183200 northing and 576200 easting for those conversant with this lingo. The map shows a watercourse to the northeast that offers a possible tunnel approach and then another to the southwest that could provide a tunnel exit. It appears the alignment suggested on the kmz uses those. When we visualized the terrain on the DEMS we produced, I think we shook our heads with some relief that it was not up to us to try to lay out a railroad through that terrain! The terrain did not suggest an obvious alignment but instead offered a grading challenge.

    George Nelson
     
  6. RogerRT

    RogerRT Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    George, was it the east side of Tunnel #2 or west side or both that presented the grade challenges? I know there was some big dips on the elevation profile but I attributed this to where bridges would have been, especially exiting the tunnel westbound. There is a another possible route on the east side just to the north of my map but I could not find another suitable route on the west side. The mystery continues...

    Roger
     
  7. Peddling Joe

    Peddling Joe Frisco Employee

    Question # 1 What is the location of tunnel #1? One suggestion was it may have been on the east side of Big Piney and northwest of the ghost town of Hooker, MO. The map I am looking shows it in section 7 and elevation of 712 but I am hesitant to give the twp, as I am unsure. The map also shows Calvary Church to the southwest of Hooker and Community Church, also Hooker School. All of these are north of the old U.S. 66 alignment.
    Question #2 - The original survery mentioning "a series of tunnels"
    suggests the third tunnel may have been the one I mentioned earlier this week near the Laclede/Phelps county line?
    Question #3 - In the early part of the civil war, then Colonel (?) Dodge was stationed at Rolla and he had a surveyor resurvery some of the area. The surveyer notes mention the grading being completed from Rolla west to at least Newburg. Do all the twp and section numbers match? I am still dowloading some maps and hope they answer this question.
    Joe
     
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  8. RogerRT

    RogerRT Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Oops, I made a mistake with my figures. I assumed that when Fremont took control of the SW Branch he graded 20 additional miles, after going back thru my notes he inheritied the 20-miles from the sale. So, at the beginning of the Civil War the end-of-track (EOT) was MP111.2, the east side of the HWY 63 underpass. Fremont constructed 11.5-miles to Arlington/Little Piney on the banks of the Gasconade, that leaves 8.5-miles of roadbed graded but not used which would put the EOT at 0.3-miles west of Pine Bluff, pretty close to where they were about to cross the Big Piney. That is not good, I would have sworn I could see some of the grade on the west side of the Big Piney crossing.

    Roger
     
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  9. Morailfan

    Morailfan Member

    Hi, everyone! -So glad to see such interest in this old alignment! I'm currently working on a project using GIS software to determine the course of the original right of way exactly, or as closely as possible. I'm in contact with the Fort Leonard Wood Dept. of Natural resources and collecting data for a GIS map, which should be done in a few weeks. The locations of the two tunnels are known, and both have been severely affected by road construction projects, the most recent of which was in the past decade, when #2 had its western approach cut filled in during the fort's new west gate project. I will be returning on foot soon to see if anything remains of either tunnels' eastern portals or approaches. I'll publish all of my maps, research, field photographs and notes here when they're finished. So stay tuned! :) --Excellent articles, by the way! --Great find!! This is by far the most obscure mapping project I've ever undertaken, so it's neat to see so many people interested and searching!
     
  10. Morailfan

    Morailfan Member

    Hi again, all...


    Just to reveal to location of the tunnels, here is a map of Tunnel Hollow from 1942. At this point, neither tunnel had been impacted by the expansion of the fort, and the topographical impact of the grading is still plainly visible in the contour lines. The approach excavations for both tunnels are easily seen, making it possible to infer where bridges would need to have been constructed. Compare the two maps to see why I've overlaid the route where I did.


    Legend: Route in red: Tunnels in green: Sites I've visited on foot, documented: traced in blue to the extent that I walked.


    Any thoughts? :)
    -Brian Parkinson
     

    Attached Files:

  11. RogerRT

    RogerRT Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Excellent! I look forward to seeing what you have.

    Roger
     
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  12. RogerRT

    RogerRT Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Any updates on this project???

    Roger

     
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  13. pathowe

    pathowe Member

  14. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    What does "bump" mean??

    Tom G.
     
  15. RogerRT

    RogerRT Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I think I might have found it. A couple of weeks ago I decided to look in to this again so I printed and scanned a copy of the 1873 map, then I copied & printed a 1938 map of Pulaski County with grid coordinates I found online. Then using a pencil & big eraser I traced the route grid by grid on the 1938 map & scanned it, once I was done I then uploaded both maps onto Google Earth as an image overlay. Needless to say I shocked that it was pretty close to what I posted a couple of years ago. The only major difference was it crossed the Big Piney at Devil's Elbow whereas I thought it had crossed just south of Pine Bluff. I'll post what I have so far, it is a very rough copy but it's enough to get an idea of the route.

    Roger
     

    Attached Files:

  16. pathowe

    pathowe Member

    Very nice work Roger. My brother in law was a Surveying instructor at Ft. Wood. I emailed him to see if he can add anything to this.
     
  17. RogerRT

    RogerRT Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks Pat, let me know what he thinks.

    Roger
     
  18. mountaincreekar likes this.
  19. RogerRT

    RogerRT Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Yeap that's the west portal of #2. Roger
     

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