Possible new Frisco lightweight passenger cars

Discussion in 'N Scale' started by pbender, May 27, 2018.

  1. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    The layouts I run most of my passenger trains on are modular layouts, so the trains don’t always fit the scenery... that said, I personally enjoy the research aspect of recreating consists that are close to prototypically correct and making them better over time. To do that, I am looking at train consists for particular time periods and trying to match them as closely as possible without scratch building the car involved.

    For example, I have built a model of the PRR’s Penn-Texas that I have documented here:
    http://nscaleintermodal.com/passenger/PRR4PennTexas1957.html

    This is the PRR train that forwarded the Texas Special cars to/from NYC. I showed that consist to a PRR group and was told the train had too many substitute and stand-in cars.
     
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  2. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

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  3. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    My RPO arrived today.

    The flyer that came with the car mentioned that the observation would be available to order sometime in the next couple of weeks. As noted previously, Lowell is using the Kato Observation car from the Santa Fe Super Chief for these.

    Paul
     
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  4. gna

    gna Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Paul, I'd love see a pic of one of your consists.
     
  5. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I'm jealous. I wish someone would come out with these cars in HO. I feel confident the available market would be larger and there would be no direct competition.

    GS
     
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  6. gna

    gna Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Me too. I bought a bunch of the Con-Cor Texas Special cars a few years, and while they are ok, they are old style plastic cars nowhere near the cars coming from Walthers and others the last few years. I was hoping WKW would pick the Texas Special or the Meteor as a name train to produce.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
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  7. gna

    gna Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Excellent work on the train. I applaud the work you've put into it.

    Sheesh. PRR fans have that reputation. SPF
     
  8. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Lowell snuck in another announcement for his Meteor consist:

    https://lowellsmith.net/product/meteor-pennsylvania-rr-cascade-brim/

    Cascade Brim was one of the PRR 10-5 cars used on The Meteor from 1948-1950 in New York-Tulsa service.

    Lowell ( correctly ) identifies the car as a “Classic” car which means it is not prototypically correct. ( Lowell’s RailSmith sleepers are Pullman Plan 4140 10-6 cars )

    The correct car is actually the Centrailia Car Shops 10-5. Intermountain has previously announced the CCS car painted for the Texas Special but not the Meteor, but I wouldn’t expect to see those cars for a while. Eventually we may see a proper Cascade Brim in Meteor paint, but I don’t think it will happen any time soon. Incidentally, Intermountain did run a Cascade Brim in a previous release, but in standard PRR paint ( I have one of those cars ).
     
  9. Let me know when they come out with sleepers 4 - 14 corg'd or smooth-sides.
     
  10. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

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  11. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    New Braunfels, a fine town of South Texas!
     
  12. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Wish this guy would do these cars in HO. It would save me a lot of aggravation.

    GS
     
  13. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    So something occurred to me about all the Coaches that Lowell has announced or produced for the Texas Special. Every one of them is from the 1955 equipment reorder.

    So, why is that significant?

    1) The Frisco only ordered one coach in this purchase.
    2) Except for MKT 1202R, which was a 68 seat former Pullman Demonstrator, the 1955 coaches were 64 seat coaches with 8 windows per side in the coach seating area. The 1948 coaches were all 56 seat coaches with only 7 windows in the coach seating area.

    So that also means these cars are the closest cars in the pool to the Railsmith tooling, which actually have the correct number of windows on each side ( even the small lavatory Windows ).
    That also means there are only two other names that really should be used: Picardy Lane ( The only Frisco car in this group ) and Pryor.

    Also of note is that Lowell Finally made his announcement for the plan 7510 coach. This is The coach Lowell said he wanted to tool way back when he started this line ( as mentioned in the very first post in this thread ). Lowell has an interest in the SP&S, and SP&S had a few plan 7510 coaches. This is also the reason why Lowell has the Frisco/Katy style Lightweight RPO-Baggage and the Texas Special style dining car on his list of cars to produce. The MKT sold the SP&S 2 56 seat coaches, the lightweight RPO-Baggage, and the dining car.

    ( and for this, I am greatful that Lowell is not a GN fan. Frisco sold several coaches and their Texas Special dining car to the Great Northern. GN rebuilt the car sides on the diner, and ( from the photos I have seen ) you have to be told it was once Frisco property.... SP&S basically just repainted the cars and put them in service ( GN did that for some of the coaches... Though they did add a large plaque with a GN logo on one end.)
     

  14. Hi Tony,

    Frisco Meteor and Texas Special Cars:


    What Meteor Cars and Texas Special Cars are still owned and operating:

    [ Cimarron River 1466 SLSF 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleeper, 1948 ]



    REAL FRISCO TEXAS SPECIAL CARS

    exteriors are not smooth.

    green color = ~ same interior as Tony's Meteor Cimarron River 1466 SLSF 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleeper, 1948
    Car Name No. Railroad Type Made Notes
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Rock Hill 250 SLSF Baggage, 30’ Mail 1947
    Alexander Doniphan 650 SLSF 36-seat Diner 1947
    Pasadena Hills 1251 SLSF 56-seat divided Coach 1947
    Baden 1252 SLSF 56-seat divided Coach 1947
    Picardy Lane 1259 SLSF 64-seat Divided Coach 1955
    Joseph Pulitzer 1350 SLSF 2 Bedroom, 1 Drawing Room, Buffet, 23-seat Lounge, RE Observation 1947
    Pierre Laclede 1450 SLSF 14 Roomette, 4 Bedroom Sleeper 1947
    Thomas Hart Benton (politician) 1451 SLSF 14 Roomette, 4 Bedroom Sleeper 1947
    Henry Shaw 1452 SLSF 14 Roomette, 4 Bedroom Sleeper 1947
    Francis P. Blair 1453 SLSF 14 Roomette, 4 Bedroom Sleeper 1947
    Auguste Choteau 1454 SLSF 14 Roomette, 4 Bedroom Sleeper 1947 *2 -
    - "Choteau" is a common misspelling of Chouteau.
    - The name appears on the car manifest as "Auguste Choteau"

    George G. Vest 1455 SLSF 14 Roomette, 4 Bedroom Sleeper 1947
    Eugene Field 1456 SLSF 14 Roomette, 4 Bedroom Sleeper 1947
    Sterling Price 1650 SLSF 26-seat Coach, Buffet, 25-seat Lounge 1947

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Real cars used on the Frisco Meteor:

    Car name
    No. Railroad Type Made Notes
    Normandy 251 SLSF combination baggage, 30 ft (9.1 m) mail 1947
    Valley Park 252 SLSF baggage, 30 ft mail 1947
    Manchester 1095 SLSF 34-seat coach, dormitory 1947
    Maplewood 1096 SLSF 34-seat coach, dormitory 1947
    Clayton 1253 SLSF 56-seat coach 1947
    Ferguson 1254 SLSF 56-seat coach 1947
    Kirkwood 1255 SLSF 56-seat coach 1947
    Richmond Heights 1256 SLSF 56-seat coach 1947
    University City 1257 SLSF 56-seat coach 1947
    Webster Groves 1258 SLSF 56-seat coach 1947
    Meramec River 1457 SLSF 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleeper 1947
    Osage River 1458 SLSF 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleeper 1947
    Gasconade River 1459 SLSF 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleeper 1947
    Niangua River 1460 SLSF 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleeper 1947
    James River 1461 SLSF 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleeper 1947
    Grand River 1462 SLSF 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleeper 1947
    Canadian River 1463 SLSF 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleeper 1947
    Neosho River 1464 SLSF 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleeper 1947
    Spring River 1465 SLSF 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleeper 1947
    Cimarron River 1466 SLSF 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleeper 1947
    Tulsa 1550 SLSF 24-seat diner, 18-seat lounge, observation 1947
    Oklahoma City 1551 SLSF 24-seat diner, 18-seat lounge, observation 1947
    Ladue 1651 SLSF 26-seat coach, buffet, 25-seat lounge 1947
    Huntleigh 1652 SLSF 26-seat coach, buffet, 25-seat lounge 1947

    Frisco Cimarron River Passenger Car | AAPRCO Register ]
    photo METEOR SLEEPER modified with smooth sides

    [​IMG]


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    Pullman's first all-stainless steel car in 1953 for service on MKT's "Texas Special"
    Totally rebuilt and reconfigured in 1989. Acquired by the Lancaster & Chester Railway in 1997.
    Capacity: Two have a double Captain's bed. One Master bedroom is available with your choice of 2 twin beds or 1 queen. All have marble and tile bathroom with shower, sink, and commode. Large dining/lounge area with oversize windows. Stereo, TV/VCR, and cell phone provided.
    Duration:
    22-30 Days, 6 Nights
    Amtrak: 800046
    Inquiries: Southwest Florida Railcar LLC, 20301 Grande Oak Boulevard, Suite 118-77, Estero, FL 33928
    Reservations: Phone: 1-704-579-9254 Email: bob123@ctc.net
    Stationed: UKN

    http://www.wataugavalleynrhs.org/powhatan.php AAPRCO
    [​IMG]
    58-seat coach configuration coach smooth side
    [​IMG]

    PPCX 800640 (Passenger Car) AAPRCO
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
  15. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Who's Tony?
    The statement "What Meteor Cars and Texas Special Cars are still owned and operating:" probably should be clarified since very few of all the cars you listed are still "owned and operating".
     
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  16. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Keith -
    Who's Tony? - Tony Marchiando and his brother Andy are the owners of former Frisco 14-4 sleeper Cimarron River. They bought the car in 1983, restored it, and have operated it successfully on any number of trips since. It is usually based in St Louis last time I have seen it.
    K
     
  17. Famous Tony is member Tony Marchiando. His Frisco modified Cinnamon River Sleeper is an AAPRCO rail car.

    Tony is the President of AAPRCO; last time I checked about a month ago. At their September's Convention there may be a new President elected, since Tony held that position for two or more years. Maybe he likes having those responsibly and most others would not.

    He will know about the few Meteor & Texas Special and some others Frisco heavyweight cars
    still "owned and/or operating". AAPRCO cars that are certified for AMTRAK high speed trains and railways. I think there are two light weight Frisco's painted cars within AAPRCO. Some personalized colors not painted as Frisco colors more likely would be heavyweights,
    but maybe not.

    All AAPRCO cars are not on their website. Some can be rented and some not. Membership has many other advantages/benefits .

    There are also old passenger cars on some non-class 1 railroads used for excursions, not on high speed rails. There are some short-lines that owned privately; some have collections of old passenger and freight cars. Some are used on their own rows for various reasons, likely sporadically..

    There are even more old passenger cars throughout Canada [ both by excursions company's and even on operating railroads within large cities as commuters. Some passengers cars are on display.

    Tony keeps up with many non-AAPRCO passenger cars having own his (with brother's) car since October 1986. Their Cinnamon River has traveled over 500,000 miles, in 48 states, and behind a variety of diesel, steam and electric locomotives. It has traveled north to Canada's Northwest Territories, to the southern border of Mexico and into Guatemala-the extreme north and south ends of the continuous standard gauge North American rail network.

    I sure would like to ride it.

    ..
     
  18. Ref;
    There were real cars
    ~ 10 SLSF 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleepers on the Meteor.
    ~ 6 SLSF 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleepers on the Texas Special with not checking out about if MKT had any.
    Same with other styles of cars on the Texas Special.

    Modeling,
    Some models may have smoothside Pullman cars of different railroads.
    If a 14 roomette, 4 bedroom smooth side sleeper if can be found it may be neat
    to repaint it as a Frisco Meteor.
    Label it as the currently modified Cinnamon River, now is a smoothside.

    Frisco model passenger cars.; the real car numbers and names are above.
    Has anyone had luck using other Frisco numbers not provided by the modeling manufacturing companies? I guess there are decals with all numbers. Likely the answer is Yes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
  19. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    And these HO pieces are pertinent to an N scale thread how?
     
  20. Of course actually this does not have much to do with N scale, unless you are trying to duplicate a specific train consist. However, an interesting topic, so let's just continue it here. Attached is a pretty complete list of the disposition of Frisco streamlined cars as happened in 1960's-70's. I think this is from an article in the old Passenger Train Journal from 1980's. This lists all the cars--probably most ended up scrapped, like the cars that went east to serve in commuter service. The other list I have made of what cars survived into the 21st century. This list has been prepared with much help and input from Phil Gosney, a big Frisco and passenger train fan. Phil is from Memphis but lived most of his adult life in California, where he worked as a locomotive engineer for Amtrak and retired in the last couple years.
    Tony Marchiando
     

    Attached Files:

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